How long did it take for Big 4 stock to be renumbered/lettered for BR?

[Guest WM183]

Hi folks!

How long, as a guesstimate, did it take for *most* goods stock to be remarked for BR following nationalization in 1948? I am guessing passenger stock was remarked quicker, but how long might it have taken too? Like, in say 1950... would half the wagons in an average train be marked for BR? Or 75%? More? I am aiming for 1950 (ish) for my 4mm stuff, so before BR standard locos or stock really started coming on in great numbers. I like the early "British Railways" all written out on some LMS engines hehe.

Thanks much!

Amanda

[TinTracks]

https://www.bloodandcustard.org/ 

 

Hi Amanda

I found the above link very useful for livery information.

Hope this helps, Rich.

[Guest Jack Benson]

We have been building a small collection of wagons for our early BR(S) set-up, we based our use of liveries on the writings of Mike King together with our fairly extensive photographic collection. 
Our timeframe is ‘48-52, does that help?
 

This link will take you to the wagons of Beaminster Road

 

StaySafe

 

 

[Mike_Walker]

I recently found this taken, allegedly, in 1957 with a wagon still sporting the pre-1936 style large lettering which surprised me.

 

 

Edited April 4, 2022 by Mike_Walker

[Cwmtwrch]

After WW2 there was a shortage of paint for several years, so even new wagons were turned out of shops with only the metalwork and patches for the lettering painted. It is possible that the body metalwork here is all very rusty, but the wagon is carrying its BR number on a patch, so it is possible that it was last fully painted by the LMS just before the change to small lettering, saw no new paint until some time soon after nationalisation, with just the metalwork repainted then, along with the patch for the number. If so, it may now be overdue for shops, especially since it's a vacuum fitted wagon. It would have been very unusual for 1957, but not, I think, altogether impossible.

 

A very interesting picture, to me anyway. If only it had been in colour!!

[N15class]

You have to remember that the principal stock would be first to repainted. You want the paying passengers to see the corporate livery. Any thought to be or at the end of its life would not be touched. Things like wagons etc would only be done as they went through a repair shop. I expect many wagons were withdrawn in their big four livery with just the number hand painted on by the yard staff.

As with the big four, items didn't get taken out of use to be painted, it came with servicing. 

[Steamport Southport]

6 hours ago, Mike_Walker said:

I recently found this taken, allegedly, in 1957 with a wagon still sporting the pre-1936 style large lettering which surprised me.

 

 

 

Looks like a wagon that is bauxite with an old grey livery showing through with wear and tear.

 

The M doesn't match the numbers and is a later addition. I would expect it to have carried post 1936 livery at one point.

 

The date seems right. Same loco in very similar weathered condition here.

 

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwrmlsh2253.htm

 

 

Jason

[Guest WM183]

Thanks folks!

So the newer wagons - say from 1940 or so on - would be new enough to avoid needing extensive shopping, and thus, maybe receive BR numbers but little else. Older wagons who might need some postwar repairs would be more likely for repaints, save for maybe PO wagons which BR decided pretty quickly to replace? I will aim for maybe a 50/50 split of BR and big 4 marked wagons, with any wagons that would be likely to see use in parcel or express freight service maybe being a bit more likely to be BR labelled?

Thanks much!

Amanda

[Sitham Yard]

2 hours ago, WM183 said:

Thanks folks!

So the newer wagons - say from 1940 or so on - would be new enough to avoid needing extensive shopping, and thus, maybe receive BR numbers but little else. Older wagons who might need some postwar repairs would be more likely for repaints, save for maybe PO wagons which BR decided pretty quickly to replace? I will aim for maybe a 50/50 split of BR and big 4 marked wagons, with any wagons that would be likely to see use in parcel or express freight service maybe being a bit more likely to be BR labelled?

Thanks much!

Amanda

I would be wary about repainting given the paint shortage of the time. Even as late as 1954 some new wooden bodied wagons were entering traffic unpainted except for markings. Look for photos of what I call hybrid liveries. For example a van in LMS livery with small lettering with the L and S painted out or GW wagon with small GWR painted out and W (in GWR style) on the corner plate next to the existing number. Geoff Kent's books on 4mm wagons have a number of examples probably photos be A.E. West AKA Wessex Collection. Also British Railways Illustrated have in the last year or Two (maybe longer) have been publishing his photos under the heading Workaday Wagons.

 

Steel bodied wagons more likely to be repainted. 

Andrew