Sharks as brake vans

[russ p]

Were shark ballast ploughs ever used as brake vans ? I've never known them been used as such and seeing how badly they oscillate I wouldn't fancy riding in one at train speeds but I understand they were designed to be used as brakes 

[kevinlms]

6 hours ago, russ p said:

Were shark ballast ploughs ever used as brake vans ? I've never known them been used as such and seeing how badly they oscillate I wouldn't fancy riding in one at train speeds but I understand they were designed to be used as brakes 

I would assume that they were used as brakes, while working as a ballast plough, as they needed to be at the rear of the train and would be required to stop a train.

A standard brake van would generally be used going to the work site.

[BR traction instructor]

During the 1960s short wheelbase brakevans such as Shark were increasingly restricted in their use, not suitable as train brake vans due to poor riding characteristics etc on unfitted/partially fitted trains. I’ll copy some of the instructions of the period when I come across them again.

 

A common misconception stems from their being pictured at the rear of some stages of fully fitted engineers workings/absolute possession movements later than the 1960s for their ploughing duties etc. Some modellers took this to mean that they were actually the train brakevan.

 

BeRTIe

Edited April 1, 2022 by BR traction instructor

[Cwmtwrch]

Shark was the code for 20T ballast plough brakes; lighter PW plough brakes were coded Oyster [LMS/BR 16T, the design from which the BR Shark was derived] and Cockle [LNER 12T]. The problem with bad riding was, as indicated, the result of the short wheelbase with ploughs outside the axles in the LMS/BR design. The SR used 20T ballast brakes with the ploughs inside the normal wheelbase, also coded Shark, which did not have the same issue with bad riding. The ploughs on the Cockle were also within its 13ft wheelbase; the LNER also had a 20T PW design with 16ft wheelbase, not produced until after Nationalisation, but this was a riding and brake van without ploughs. The GWR plough brakes were older 24/25T vehicles, again with the plough within the normal wheelbase.

 

Why the swb design was perpetuated by BR I don't know, but it must have restricted train speeds, as, even travelling out of use, it had to be taken to the work site.

[Wickham Green too]

18 minutes ago, Cwmtwrch said:

...... The GWR plough brakes were older 24/25T vehicles, again with the plough within the normal wheelbase.

 

Why the swb design was perpetuated by BR I don't know, but it must have restricted train speeds, as, even travelling out of use, it had to be taken to the work site.

Both the L.S.W.R & G.S.&W.R. had plough brakes virtually identical to the G.W.R. ones - though the similarity to a 'standard' Swindon Toad suggests that was the origin.

 

 

The disadvantage of 'within-wheelbase' ploughs is the difficulty of the operator seeing what's going on beneath him - hence the 'Shark' family of vans !

[kevinlms]

27 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

Both the L.S.W.R & G.S.&W.R. had plough brakes virtually identical to the G.W.R. ones - though the similarity to a 'standard' Swindon Toad suggests that was the origin.

 

 

The disadvantage of 'within-wheelbase' ploughs is the difficulty of the operator seeing what's going on beneath him - hence the 'Shark' family of vans !

Goes to show advantages and disadvantages of location of plough. Is that single-ended?

[hmrspaul]

A SHARK is in the brakevan train used at Scunthorpe by  the conserved railway to circulate all over the internal railway. Even at the very few miles per hour they use the ride is appalling! Admittedly far from mainline track but they must have been an unpleasant ride to a work site. 

 

As so often the LSWR seems to have been decades early in the design of their engineers stock - apparently their SHARK may have been used from Meldon quarry with the vacuum braked wagons used for traffic from there. Introduced in 1914, some had very long working lives https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/srshark

 

Paul