PS&NWR carriages

[corneliuslundie]

On page 24 of Peter Johnson's history of the Shropshire & Montgomery Light Railway there is a photograph of a passenger train from the Potteries, Shrewsbury & North Wales Railway period, probably early 1870s.

I am keen to find out who built the carriages and they are very similar in style to some of the early Cambrian Railways carriages: flat sides and outside framing.

Does anyone know?

Jonathan

Edited April 1, 2022 by corneliuslundie

[Michael Hodgson]

7 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

Does anyone know?

 

Probably not!   Not many of us even recognise the abbreviation of the company name. 

And at least nobody old enough to remember is still around to tell you if you get it wrong 😀 

 

Did the company have enough money to provide its own trains or was it one of those so financially distressed by the cost of building the line that they had to get another company to provide the stock and run the service?  If you've got a picture showing Cambrian-style carriages, they could well be Cambrian or at least built by the same contractors.  According to this. they took over at least part of the service after the company went bust, so they may well have bought the insolvent company's rolling stock if it was recent and serviceable

https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Potteries,_Shrewsbury_and_North_Wales_Railway

 

It became one of the Col Stephens lines, so perhaps there's something in one of the histories of his empire?

[Compound2632]

This photo perchance?

 

 

[Embedded link to Wikipedia.]

[Michael Hodgson]

I wonder how long they had to stand there, holding that pose 😀

[corneliuslundie]

That's the photo. Thoughts?

Jonathan

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, corneliuslundie said:

Thoughts?

 

The three-compartment carriage is presumably a first or first/second composite, the four-compartment carriages are thirds or perhaps one is a second. (I think at this period it is most likely that there is once carriage of each class and the brake is a break.) The three-compartment carriage is coach-built with panelling over a frame whereas the others are, as you have observed, outside-framed, possibly with boarding rather than panelling, except for the doors. The underframes of the first and second carriages look to be much the same, suggesting that all are from the same builder.

 

Not, I think, Metropolitan, who inherited early LNWR carriage designs when Joseph Wright took over the Saltley carriage & wagon works. There's something about them that makes me want to say Brown, Marshall & Co. If so, it's likely that there might be some information and possibly drawings at Birmingham Public Library, who hold the Metro-Cammell archives, Brown Marshall having ultimately become part of that combine.

[bécasse]

I suspect that the first and third carriages are from Ashbury, quite possibly secondhand from the LNWR or NLR. The drawing shows an Ashbury carriage of 1854 build but they seem to have built similar style vehicles over a period of time in the mid-Victorian era.

[corneliuslundie]

Thanks. I'll try to follow up those suggestions.

Jonathan

[uax6]

That photo also appears in LNWR Miscellany by Twells. Now I haven't got it to hand (I'm in work) but I'm sure he mentioned who made them...

 

Andy G 

[Tom Burnham]

There was an auction of some of the Potts stock. As I recall some went to Midland Carriage & Wagon. I'll see if the auction advert gives any useful details.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Tom Burnham

[Tom Burnham]

The auction in 1888 sold 180 trucks (mainly 6-ton opens and lime wagons; 1 brake van, 2 cattle trucks and 1 goods van are mentioned in the local newspaper report).  No mention of carriages.  I wonder if they were hired or leased rather than owned outright?