Largest ‘A4’ box file dimensions

[RateTheFreight]

Afternoon all,

 

hopefully someone is able to help. What’s the largest ‘A4’ (or ‘A3’ of anyone knows where to find one) dimension wise people have found. I managed to get some that are 28 x 38 cm but could do with something slightly larger. 
 

Welcome any suggestions be they traditional box files or storage boxes ideal for this type of modelling.

 

G 

[hank]

Well, here in Czechia and other continental countries we use more various box sizes depending on their purpose. Most of them are 215 to 250 by 305 to 350 mm (all the mentioned box dimensions are internal). Archive boxes are larger while mail boxes smaller. The pure A4 format is 210x297 mm. You can also see envelope boxes for C-formats. The pure envelope format C4 (used for A4-sheets) is 229x324 mm and the size of the box for packing C4 envelopes should be 5 to 15 mm longer/wider. For the pure B4 format 250x353 mm (usually used for printing books and newspapers) you can calculate box sizes 5 to 15 mm longer/wide as well. Furthermore, there exist so called uncut or uncropped paper formats usually ordered by printer houses to fit printing marks on the unprinted paper sheet margins; they are 5 - 15% larger than the pure formats.  Thus, the uncropped sheet SRA4 is 250x320 mm and the respective box should be again 5 to 15 mm longer/wider.

 

For A3 simply multiply A4 width by 2.

 

Sorry for my poor English, unfortunately I suffer from a lack of practice opportunities.

 

(I am a retired paper- and boxmaker and paper merchant.)

[Multigauge]

@hank don't worry about your English, it's superb.

[Sturminster_Newton]

Why not consider the Scale Model Scenery BB010 400 x 295 large baseboard modules?

 

They don't not fold down and are slightly larger than a box file.

 

Also being laser cut fit together reliably and at a price that won't break the bank.

 

For slightly more cash the Tim Horn photo boxes 900 x 300 are also worth consideration, not hugely expensive and larger again.

 

Either base unit allows a little room for development which can be very useful if you are not a dab hand at measuring twice and still cutting over/undersize...

 

I have been roughing out layouts on Anyrail, which saves a lot of time laying up possible designs that are too compromised.

 

One tip I would pass on is setting a FoMo style of 113mm limit to the inside of the furthest rail.

 

The larger area available also allows the muddler to slide up into 0-16.5.

 

Set-track geometry works fine in confined areas.

 

The radii are well produced and repeatable year on year.

 

All of which help the modeller who is looking to squeeze in as much as possible into a very controlled space.

[Dungrange]

On 05/04/2022 at 16:15, RateTheFreight said:

(or ‘A3’ of anyone knows where to find one) 

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Holding-Company-Sverker-Storing-Document/dp/B009SNFX2K/ref=sr_1_10?crid=31HXI646U8GJS&keywords=a3+box+file&qid=1649537849&sprefix=a3+boxfile%2Caps%2C58&sr=8-10

 

That one is 31 x 43.5 cm

 

There is also:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Holding-Company-Sverker-Storing-Documents/dp/B009SNFXF2/ref=sr_1_111?crid=31HXI646U8GJS&keywords=a3%2Bbox%2Bfile&qid=1649537557&sprefix=a3%2Bboxfile%2Caps%2C58&sr=8-111&th=1

 

That's 31 x 44 cm

 

Alternatively, 

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Seawhite-A3-Archival-Box-Deep/dp/B00BFDQYR4/ref=sr_1_7?crid=31HXI646U8GJS&keywords=a3%2Bbox%2Bfile&qid=1649537717&sprefix=a3%2Bboxfile%2Caps%2C58&sr=8-7&th=1

 

That's 33.5 x 46.5 cm.  That seems to be the biggest that I can see.  A3 sized boxes don't seem to be as easy to find as I'd have thought.

[johnhutnick]

I am in the US and am curious about this whole box business.  Is it just a sort of competition to see what you can manage with one of these  boxes?  After all, they are just cardboard.  If you need something to build a little layout, why not just a piece of plywood and some 1x2 lumber?  Or to be creative, why not a drawer from a kitchen cabinet?

[009 micro modeller]

13 hours ago, johnhutnick said:

I am in the US and am curious about this whole box business.  Is it just a sort of competition to see what you can manage with one of these  boxes?  After all, they are just cardboard.  If you need something to build a little layout, why not just a piece of plywood and some 1x2 lumber?  Or to be creative, why not a drawer from a kitchen cabinet?

Have a look at the photos here of the box file challenge at Swanley, back in 2011. These were all strengthened in some way (mostly plywood/MDF, I used Perspex as it suited my prototype better). They also did a shoebox one a few years before - Michael Campbell’s entry is here. If you look on Small Layouts Scrapbook etc. you’ll find there’s quite a few people building layouts in various kinds of containers.

[hank]

16 hours ago, johnhutnick said:

Is it just a sort of competition to see what you can manage with one of these  boxes?  After all, they are just cardboard.

Why not? Cardboard is stuff like any other, in many senses even better than others. For me the following approach worked: I got acquainted with a bookbinding/boxmaking craftswoman 😉 and asked her to tailor for me two neat paper- and bookbinding cloth-laminated cardboard boxes fitting into a free shelf. She used a sort of boxboard 3 mm thick and for the boxes 495x260x120 mm it is strong and durable enough.

Edited April 15, 2022 by hank

[johnhutnick]

I tentatively conclude that a lot of modellers, particularly in UK, are not practiced at fabrication and sawing wood, so use these boxfiles.  Or they turn to laser cut baseboards.  Here is the US it plywood or homasote and 1x lumber.

[SonOfMike]

17 minutes ago, johnhutnick said:

I tentatively conclude that a lot of modellers, particularly in UK, are not practiced at fabrication and sawing wood, so use these boxfiles.  Or they turn to laser cut baseboards.

 

I think it is more to do with the fact that modellers (especially in the UK) often do not have room for large layouts. Houses here usually do not have basements and space is at a premium. Layouts therefore often need to be small and or portable, which in turn means that they require small portable baseboards. It is simply cheaper in some cases to use a laser cut baseboard than buy the wood to build one. Some baseboard kits are designed to fit inside brand-name storage boxes of certain sizes, which also makes them popular.

 

Boxfile layouts suit some modelers because they enjoy the challenge of working within a set, confined space and because the boxfile itself is an easy thing to store - a boxfile layout is a micro layout which is already built inside a storage unit. Boxfile layouts can be stored on shelves, in cupboards etc. so they can be ideal for modellers with little or no space for a conventional layout.

 

My own layout consists of a couple of small modules built on commercially available floating shelf units. When not in use they can be stored safely in the top section of my wardrobe. I used the shelves because they were much, much cheaper than buying the wood to make something the same size myself.

 

[Sturminster_Newton]

On 16/04/2022 at 13:37, johnhutnick said:

I tentatively conclude that a lot of modellers, particularly in UK, are not practiced at fabrication and sawing wood, so use these boxfiles.  Or they turn to laser cut baseboards.  Here is the US it plywood or homasote and 1x lumber.

Fabrication needs, in no particular order; tools, skill and space.

 

It is quite easy to spend more on the tools of construction than the result of one's efforts might save when measured against a commercial product; even when purchased in multiples.

 

If you are proud owner and can use correctly lots of woodworking tools then read no further.

 

Pretty much all timber product has trebled in cost since the Covid Brake came off and is unlikely to reduce in cost any time soon.

 

So a commercial product which gets a quart out the pint pot has much going for it, will be lighter and possibly last through many changes to the layout built on its surface.

 

There are low profile professional baseboards that will fit into a 'really useful' plastic box and slide under a bed or on top of a cupboard.

 

A tip to pass on to prolong the life of your basey fundamould is to build the layout on 5mm Foamboard rather than the raw timber, a practice much favoured by professional muddlers.

 

It would be feasible to manufacture a baseboard from 'scrap' corrugated packaging as long as you desire a solid baseboard around 2" (50mm) thick amongst other compromises in construction.

 

Triwall Corrugated Card is incredibly strong for its weight and three or four thicknesses laminated can be sawn with standard wood saws. once the glue has dried. If you need more strength around the perimeter and to fix legs onto standard 50 or 75 x 15 pse would be adequate for most purposes when glued to the sides and lower surface. Remember that most modern domestic doors are a thin skin of ply over a form of cardboard honeycomb interior with a band of timber around the outer edge into which you fit latch and hinges.

 

As with all aspects of muddling the route chosen to reach your target has many choices, and in some instances a layout that clears away into a minimal space will find greater favour with the domestic goddess than one that sprawls across the lounge floor or fills the spare bedroom.

 

It may be your 'magnum opus' but it's production can be messy and disruptive.

 

 

Edited April 17, 2022 by Sturminster_Newton
correction

[johnhutnick]

I think I will go to The Container Store and see if they have these Bigso boxes.

There is possibly something different culturally between US and UK about boxfile type layouts.  I have never seen one here.  As far as what wood costs, I do not know how many pay attention.  You buy 2 pcs of 1x2 6 or 8 ft long, a 2x4 piece of some plywood, and thats it.  Possibly many UK modellers are tight on funds.  Or maybe it is part of modelling to just emphasize it.

[johnhutnick]

UK men seem to like sheds.  In my yard I built an 8x12 with a loft, cut wood myself, screwed it all together.  Now I needed contractors to do shingles and vinyl siding.  But otherwise with my own tools and fingers.  So my brain just goes about all of this differently.

[009 micro modeller]

4 minutes ago, johnhutnick said:

There is possibly something different culturally between US and UK about boxfile type layouts.

I got the impression from Carl Arendt’s writing about box file layouts that this particular kind of box file isn’t available in the US. But is it?

His website also featured people building baseboards with carved foam sheets.

 

12 minutes ago, Sturminster_Newton said:

Fabrication needs, in no particular order; tools, skill and space.

Another advantage of box files is that they can be reinforced with things like MDF, other fibreboard or (for slightly niche applications) Perspex, often easier to cut with just a Stanley knife or small saw.

For me the ability to store multiple layouts of potentially quite diverse prototypes stacked either in box files or plastic boxes (which small layouts can be packed into) is a big advantage.

 

[The Bandit]

Lots of great ideas in these posts for those who don’t have a lot of space.