Tortoise & Smail Point Motors (Switch Machines) and alternatives

[Art Dent]

Hi folks

 

A bit of a 'noob' question here.

 

I know that the Tortoise point motor (US: Switch Machine) is a slow-action stall motor and the Tortoise needs an additional interface to be used with DCC.  I am correct in thinking that it can be used 'as is' with direct control (i.e. not using the DCC bus ) with a separate, switched 12V dc feed?

 

The outputs from the Tortoise are able to switch the polarity of the frog in an electrofrog point?

 

Lately there seems to have been a 'new & improved' Tortoise point motor - the Smail.  This seems to be a Tortoise *with* the DCC decoder (previously an 'add-on') already incorporated - so good to go out of the box with a DCC bus supply.

 

Again, are there outputs to switch the frog polarity?

 

The Tortoise required wires soldering to the small circuit board that projects out of the bottom of the motor.  You could get a terminal block to connect to this circuit board as far as I remember.  Does the Smail also require this soldering or does it come fitted with a terminal block (screw connections)?

 

Finally, am I correct in thinking that the Smail is more or less the same as a DCC Concepts iP Digital point motor??  From my reading, it seems to be so.

 

Thanks for taking the time to read this.  Any help/advice gratefully received.

 

Art

[Tony Cane]

I think you will find all the answers here.

 

http://www.circuitron.com/index_files/ins/800-6200ins.pdf

[Art Dent]

Thanks for the speedy reply Tony.

 

Just need to know what I need to do to an electrofrog point (turnout?) to appropriately supply the frog with the correct polarity of electrical feed (rather than relying on the point contact of the blades) and how to wire that up to a Tortoise/Smail/Digital iP motor for auto-switching.  I also need to modify a double-slip.

 

Thankfully these are O-gauge points and not N-gauge!

 

Art

[brossard]

Hi Art, I have had Tortoises for many many ... (as Minnie Crun might say) years.  I first used them on a DC layout that quickly became DCC.  However, I continued to power them with DC from a separate controller.

 

My latest layout (0 gauge now) still uses Tortoises (they don't die) but now I have stationary decoders.  My recommendation is to actuate the motors with fascia mounted momentary push buttons through the decoder inputs (mine are Wabbits, I don't know if Smail decoders have these).  I did program them for use with the throttle (NCE in my case) but there are too many button pushes for it to be convenient.

 

 

I installed the push buttons (and throttle panels) on both sides of the layout so operation is very flexible.

 

Nice thing is that the turnout actuation buttons are adjacent so there is no need for a control panel.  The only issue is that my corporation often presses the turnout button without my realizing.

 

I'm glad to see Circuitron finally getting with the program.

 

I just bought a second hand double slip which is serendipitous.  I had built my own single slip (twice actually) but it's performance is not great.

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by brossard

[Brian]

21 hours ago, Art Dent said:

Thanks for the speedy reply Tony.

 

Just need to know what I need to do to an electrofrog point (turnout?) to appropriately supply the frog with the correct polarity of electrical feed (rather than relying on the point contact of the blades) and how to wire that up to a Tortoise/Smail/Digital iP motor for auto-switching.  I also need to modify a double-slip.

 

Thankfully these are O-gauge points and not N-gauge!

 

Art

Both the Tortoise and the Smail have two independent sets of changeover contacts, these are on terminals 2, 3 & 4 and the other set on 5, 6 & 7.  Terminals 4 and 5 are the moving contact per switch. 4 makes to either 2 or 3 depending on point position, while 5 makes to either 6 or 7.   Connect the points frog wire to 4 (or 5) and then two wires from the DCC bus pair or the rails leading into the points single end go on terminals 2 & 3 with 4, or 6 & 7 with 5.  If you get a short occur, then swap around the two DCC wires on 2 & 3 (or 6 & 7) .   

DCC connects to the Smail terminals 1 and 8 either way around.   

You can add two momentary press to make push buttons or a sprung to centre Off switch onto the Snails special connections C1, C2 and Gnd. this then allow manual operation of the motor over and back.

 

Information re the Smail is here... Link to Smail manual

 

 

Edited May 6, 2022 by Brian
Edit to add link