Coal traffic for the South West - Where did it originate from?

[Brinkly]

Greetings gents,

 

Several questions about coal traffic to the South West (particulary South Devon) if I may. I'm quite interested in moving the timeframe for my modelling back to the 1930s, rather than the early 1950s. 

 

• Did the majority of the domestic and locomotive coal for the South West come from Welsh mines? (I'm curious about this as I know Kingswear docks was an unloading point for coal destined for Torquay gas works.)
• Where would it be routed? (Severn Tunnel Junction and then onwards down the Bristol to Exeter mainline and onwards to Plymouth and then Cornwall?)
• What was the frequency of such traffic? (1930s)
• Where there any big merchants in Devon and Cornwall or any 'typical' colliery wagons which would appear down here?  
• Would gas works have their own supply of coal too? 
• Any good books with PO wagon liveries to refer to? 

 

Thanks in advance. Any information will be gratefully received. 

 

All the best,

Nick.

[Aire Head]

32 minutes ago, Brinkly said:

Did the majority of the domestic and locomotive coal for the South West come from Welsh mines? (I'm curious about this as I know Kingswear docks was an unloading point for coal destined for Torquay gas works.)

 

Welsh coal is typically Anthracite which has a high carbon content and low amount of impurities, therefore more expensive, it was likely to be used in applications where the higher temperature and cleaner burning was in demand such as steel working or similar. 

 

Different regions of the county produced different types of coal and these would have been sent wherever that particular type was required so coal for your area could have come from any number of places. How it got there could vary.

 

32 minutes ago, Brinkly said:

Would gas works have their own supply of coal too?

 

Yes however this also depends on the size of the gasworks. A very large gasworks may warrant it's very own dedicated trains however a more typical size one may have received it's coal as a cut of wagons delivered in the local pickup goods.

 

Gasworks want coal with a higher proportion of volatiles than would be found in Anthracite and therefore this is very likely to have come from somewhere other than Wales.

 

[magmouse]

I'm interested in your question as I need to similarly work out the appropriate PO wagons for my 1908 Dorset coast setting, but I don't have any answers for you, unfortunately. You mention the coastal coal trade, and if you want a deep dive into that, you might find this of interest:

 

A Study in the Economic Geography of the Pre-War Coastwise Coal Trade: https://www.jstor.org/stable/621229

 

Nick

[john new]

I know this doesn't directly answer your question but my memory is that at least some of the coal supplies for the S West were shipped across the Estuary from S Wales to ports like Burnham. There was also the Somerset coalfield around Radstock which fed out onto both the GWR and SDJR.

[br2975]

1 hour ago, Aire Head said:

 

Welsh coal is typically Anthracite which has a high carbon content and low amount of impurities, therefore more expensive, it was likely to be used in applications where the higher temperature and cleaner burning was in demand such as steel working or similar. 

 

Gasworks want coal with a higher proportion of volatiles than would be found in Anthracite and therefore this is very likely to have come from somewhere other than Wales.

 

 

Anthracite is mainly only found in the west of the South Wales coalfield, generally west of the Vale of Neath.

.

The Anthracite market blossomed in the late 50s, early 60s following the introduction of clean air legislation.

.

The rest of the South Wales coalfield produced a variety of steam coal, coking coal etc.

[Mike_Walker]

The gasworks at Hollicombe were supplied by steamer into Kingswear then forwarded by rail.

[Morello Cherry]

There are the Somerset Coalfields and there is also coal mines around the Forest of Dean.

 

From wiki:

 

The total tonnage of coal produced by the coalfield increased throughout the 19th century, reaching a peak around 1901, when there were 79 separate collieries and production was 1.25 million tons per annum. The peak years for production were 1900 to 1920. However, decline took hold and the number of pits reduced from 30 at the beginning of the 20th century to 14 by the mid-1930s,

 

There is quite a bit about it - https://radstockmuseum.co.uk/coalmines-mining-and-local-industries/

 

Most histories of the S&D include a discussion of the various coal mines that were on the line and of course Kilmersdon (now at the MHR) was working Kilmersdon colliery until 1973.

 

There's a bit on Somerset mining on the Kilmersdon page - https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/peckett-sons-works-no-1788-kilmersdon-0-4-0st/

 

The slag heap in Midsomer Norton is used for creative purposes these days

 

 

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Morello Cherry

[The Stationmaster]

Looking at the November 1948 working - which is the only information I have rewgarding colliery empties coming out of the southwest - empties were moving to Rogerstone, Alexandra Dock Jcn, Aberdare and Penarth Curve North.  I haven't got any marshalling for loaded coal traffic coming into the south west but the routes for empties will I'm sure give a flavour of where the coal had come from so 

Rogerstone - Western Valleys;  Aberdare anywhere between Pontypool Road and Aberdare;   AD Jcn - Western and Eastern Valleys, probably mainly Eastern Valleys;  Penarth Curve Nth  -  Rhondda and Taff Valleys.  

 

The GWR favoured Western Valleys coal for loco use but no doubt took stuff from elsewhere at that end iof the coalfield (as BR2975 explained the South Wales coalfield produced coal that got harder the further west it went.  Thus Eastern and Western Valleys coal was relatively soft with a low ash content and good calorific value while the principal Rhondda seams produced a coal which was a bit harder but still gave excellent calorific value hence many seams produced what were called 'Steam Coals' for the shipping market.  The best coking coals for steel making came from that end of the coalfield although over the years blending (of different coal types) was increasingly used to achieve the dersiredt carbon balance in blast furnaces).

 

I would think movement opre-war would have been largely similar but with one major caveat - a lot of coal came by sea from South wales to balance copper ore which went in the opposite direction so especially the case in Cornwall.  hence i wonder if north coast towns tended to receive coal by sea.  For example Newquay received no railborne coal at all in 1933 and had only received 29 tons in 1923 although Oadstow received just over 1200 tons by rail in 1936.

[BR traction instructor]

Seem to recall the LSWR/SR getting Welsh coal shipped to Fremington, North Devon, amongst other destinations, to avoid giving the work to the GWR…I’ll consult a book or two to confirm the gen.

 

16,000 to 28,000 tons per annum 1928-36. In 1942 88,000 tons. After the war about 50,000 tons per annum. Source ‘Lines to Torrington’ by the Irwell Press.

 

Amongst others, this supplied Exmouth jcn shed with locomotive coal.

 

East Yelland P.S. (nr Fremington) also received sth Wales coal directly by ship. During strikes by seamen in the 1970s coal was railed in from sth Wales.

 

BeRTIe

Edited May 28, 2022 by BR traction instructor

[Morello Cherry]

5 hours ago, Brinkly said:

• Any good books with PO wagon liveries to refer to? 

 

 

 

 

This might be worth checking out. I don't have it myself

 

https://lightmoor.co.uk/books/private-owner-wagons-of-somerset/l9877

 

When it comes to Somerset railways Colin Maggs  is pretty much the go to author.

 

There is also this about the uses of coal and transport of it and also suggests where coal was coming from into the South West.

 

Quote

 

Morgans, however, writing in 1884, felt that the local coal industry was not being fairly treated by the railway companies, particularly with regard to the rates charged for the carriage of coal. He noted that the GWR charged 6/8 per ton for the 150 mile journey from Cannock Chase to Trowbridge, whilst it charged 2/3 per ton to carry Radstock coal 18 miles to the same destination, a difference made even more significant by the higher costs of production in Somerset. Furthermore, in 1879, following the opening of the Severn bridge, the GWR reduced its rates for Forest of Dean coal, although Morgans felt that the opening of the bridge had not had the disastrous effects for the industry that had been forecast. He also thought that the construction of the Severn tunnel would be equally unlikely to have any serious effects, since, even if the GWR were to be able to reduce its rate of 7/6 per ton from Cardiff to London, it still would not be able to compete with the rate of 4/6 per ton charged for sea-borne coal. Nevertheless, competition from other districts remained a major source of concern, and Down and Warrington quote a local coal owner who justified his refusal to grant a pay rise in 1912 by claiming that “only last Saturday I saw three or four trucks of Cannock Chase coal being unloaded at Mells Station.” (W Morgans (1884: John Wright & Co: Bristol) A Survey of the Bristol Coal-field, pp. 66-68 & 88; C G Down & A J Warrington (nd: David & Charles: Newton Abbot) The History of the Somerset Coalfield, p. 25)

 

4.3: The Nature of the Market

 

In 1919, Sir Frank Beauchamp put the annual coal requirements of Bristol at something in excess of 1,500,000 tons. The Regional Survey Report shows that, by 1943, the coalfield was unable to supply this, let alone the requirements of the surrounding counties, even though all Bristol and Somerset coal was now being used within the south-west.

 

The report also analysed the nature of the market in 1943/44 , which it claimed was similar to that of the pre-war period. A more detailed survey was carried out by the Fuel Research Coal Survey in October 1943, the results of which were claimed to provide a good indication of the nature of the local industries, since most of the coal was disposed of close to the collieries. (Bristol and Somerset Coalfield Regional Survey Report (1946: HMSO: London), pp. 20-21)

 

What is immediately obvious is the overwhelming dependence of the mines on sales to the gas industry. The gasworks were one of the very few consumers to take all six grades of coal produced in the area, although 79% of that used in October 1943 was through coal, which had received no treatment apart from hand-picking. This ready market may account for the fact that only Coalpit Heath, Pensford and Kilmersdon had any washing facilities, although a washery was also being installed at Old Mills. As a result, 52.9% of the output in 1944 was through coal, with a further 39.8% merely being screened into large and small. Only 7.3% was cleaned, a fact which the Regional Survey Report urged should receive early attention. (Bristol and Somerset Coalfield Regional Survey Report (1946: HMSO: London), pp. 21 & 23)

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Morello Cherry

[KingEdwardII]

2 hours ago, Aire Head said:

Welsh coal is typically Anthracite

The South Wales coalfield contains a variety of types of coal, with a grading running roughly east-to-west, with the softest and highest volatile content in the east and the hardest and lowest volatile content in the west. The softer varieties are typically classed as Bituminous coals while the harder varieties, particularly from the far west of the coalfield, are classed as Anthracite.

 

The South Wales coalfield is really famous for its Steam Coal, which is a Bituminous coal. It was great for firing boilers to create steam e.g. for steam engines - especially ships and (of course) railway locomotives. The best steam coals tend to come from the central/eastern areas, very roughly from the Rhondda to Ebbw Vale, although there is variation by seam and locality. One of the features of south wales coal is its relatively low Sulfur content, which was always noted by the locals when using the product in domestic fires, if ever "foreign" coal with higher Sulfur content was substituted for the indigenous stuff ("Midlands coal" was the term used, almost no matter where it actually came from).

 

Anthracite came into its own once clean air legislation started to bite - it burns much more cleanly, although it always had specific markets before that time.

 

Yours,  Mike.

[Fat Controller]

13 minutes ago, KingEdwardII said:

The South Wales coalfield contains a variety of types of coal, with a grading running roughly east-to-west, with the softest and highest volatile content in the east and the hardest and lowest volatile content in the west. The softer varieties are typically classed as Bituminous coals while the harder varieties, particularly from the far west of the coalfield, are classed as Anthracite.

 

The South Wales coalfield is really famous for its Steam Coal, which is a Bituminous coal. It was great for firing boilers to create steam e.g. for steam engines - especially ships and (of course) railway locomotives. The best steam coals tend to come from the central/eastern areas, very roughly from the Rhondda to Ebbw Vale, although there is variation by seam and locality. One of the features of south wales coal is its relatively low Sulfur content, which was always noted by the locals when using the product in domestic fires, if ever "foreign" coal with higher Sulfur content was substituted for the indigenous stuff ("Midlands coal" was the term used, almost no matter where it actually came from).

 

Anthracite came into its own once clean air legislation started to bite - it burns much more cleanly, although it always had specific markets before that time.

 

Yours,  Mike.

There was a two-way traffic between the North Devon and Cornish ports, and the three westernmost ports on the South Wales coalfield  (Burry Port, Llanelly and Swansea), bringing non-ferrous ores in one direction, and taking coal in the other. It's why part of my family lived in Burry Port, rather than Bideford... When the West Country reserves were exhausted, ships started bringing the ores from South America and elsewhere.

[Rivercider]

I think pretty much all the small ports along the Bristol Channel coast handled coal imports from South Wales, most of that would be used in the local area. Fremington and Bridgwater have already been mentioned, but Bideford, Barnstaple, Velator Quay (Braunton) also imported coal. In Cornwall Portreath and Hayle imported for industrial use.

On the south coast as well as Kingswear the ports of Teignmouth (GWR) , and Exmouth (SR) on the South Devon coast handled large tonnages of imported coal for use locally, much of which was loaded to rail. From 1931 imported coal through Teignmouth went to Newton Abbot power station, while domestic coal went to places like Moretonhampstead, Bovey Tracey and Starcross.

 

Anthracite was also mined in the Bideford area, but tended to be used locally for industrial purposes such as in lime kilns.

 

cheers

Edited May 27, 2022 by Rivercider
Additional info

[Halvarras]

Did I read somewhere that Welsh coal favoured for locomotive steaming was quite fragile and didn't like being dropped from a great height, hence why no monolithic coaling towers on the GWR?

[Compound2632]

A bit before your 1930s date but if you put "Bere Alston" into the Midland Railway Study Centre catalogue search, you will turn up 21 wagon labels for traffic to that station from the Midland system. Some is goods traffic but the majority are colliery labels, with a number from Mapperley Colliery and others in the Derby / Notts coalfield, also from Moira Colliery in Leicestershire, and one from Pontardawe, which could be anthracite. Most are routed via Bath and Templecombe, i.e. over the S&DJR and onto the LSWR main line, but a couple a via Bedford and Brent, so onto the LSWR by way of the Acton Wells branch and the N&SWJ line.

 

Bere Alston was a LSWR station but I think one can assume that GWR stations would be also be receiving coal from the East Midlands, and perhaps also from the Cannock Chase and Staffordshire coalfields, but via a route more favourable to the GWR's coffers.

 

As has been said, coal was a complicated commodity and customers knew what they wanted.

[Morello Cherry]

I am curious as to what happened to the coastal colliers during the two wars. Jellicoe Specials were set up because coastal colliers were threatened by u boats. I assume that domestic coal traffic that had been sent by sea must have also been sent by rail for the same reason - does anyone know?

[Rivercider]

2 hours ago, Halvarras said:

Did I read somewhere that Welsh coal favoured for locomotive steaming was quite fragile and didn't like being dropped from a great height, hence why no monolithic coaling towers on the GWR?

In one or other of the books I have about Exmouth Junction loco shed it mentions that after early experience the coaling tower was kept nearly full so that wagon loads of coal being tipped in at the top did not have far to fall for exactly that reason,

 

cheers

[Compound2632]

4 hours ago, Morello Cherry said:

Most histories of the S&D include a discussion of the various coal mines that were on the line

 

But what they don't tell you about is the quantity of coal traffic passing over the S&DJR that did not originate on it (as evidenced by the wagon labels I mentioned earlier). One one of the 7F 2-8-0s could easily do a turn working a loaded coal train each way over the Mendips, then next turn a train of empties each way. By no means the only place in the country where loaded coal trains would pass each other going in opposite directions, the point being that it was different coal in each direction - essentially, different commodities.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Compound2632

[Rivercider]

1 hour ago, Morello Cherry said:

I am curious as to what happened to the coastal colliers during the two wars. Jellicoe Specials were set up because coastal colliers were threatened by u boats. I assume that domestic coal traffic that had been sent by sea must have also been sent by rail for the same reason - does anyone know?

Coastal colliers still continued to sail along the English Channel in WWII, sometimes in convoy, though most other commercial shipping was suspended..

Edit - The convoys started in the summer of 1940 and after heavy losses were suspended for a few weeks, then re-started and continued until 1943. 

Westbound convoys were designated CWx while eastbound convoys were designated CEx, they sailed between Southend and the Solent.

On 25th July 1940 25 ships left the Thames on convoy CW8, which came under attack by sea and air, and only 11 ships passed Dungeness, with three more being sunk the next day.

 

In the Exe estuary near the mouth on the western Dawlish Warren side lies the remains of the South Coaster. In December 1943 she was loaded with coal from Marsden to Exmouth when she ran aground off the entrance to Exmouth Docks. Some days later a storm loosened her, and she was towed to her final resting place, she can be clearly seen from the train between Starcross and Dawlish Warren.

 

cheers 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Rivercider
Additional info

[phil_sutters]

7 hours ago, john new said:

I know this doesn't directly answer your question but my memory is that at least some of the coal supplies for the S West were shipped across the Estuary from S Wales to ports like Burnham. There was also the Somerset coalfield around Radstock which fed out onto both the GWR and SDJR.

Most of the coal shipped into Highbridge Wharf was for the S&D and LSWR's own locos. The wharf had a small Bridgwater COOP coal depot in the corner, but it is not recorded whether that coal came from the South Wales source or the Somerset coalfield or pits further afield.

Chris Handley's first volume on 'Radstock - Coal & Steam - History' doesn't get into the customers of the pits around Radstock much at all. It would be strange if some of their coal didn't find its way south, so PO wagons from those pits may well have been found down in deepest Dorset. Brays Down, Camerton, New Rock, Writhlington-Kilmersdon-Foxcote & The Earl of Waldegrave are all collieries with large numbers of wagons, that could have turned up down south. Looking at their entries in Richard Kelham's PO wagons of Somerset several of these collieries advertise the availability of good gas-making coals among their products.

[The Stationmaster]

4 hours ago, Halvarras said:

Did I read somewhere that Welsh coal favoured for locomotive steaming was quite fragile and didn't like being dropped from a great height, hence why no monolithic coaling towers on the GWR?

But exactly the same coal was tipped into ships cargo holds at South Wales docks - albeit with special precautions to limit damage to it.   I often wonder if the story about no mechanical coaling plants on the GWR was a ruse invented by Swindon to cover up for their lack of investment in such things ?

 

2 hours ago, Morello Cherry said:

I am curious as to what happened to the coastal colliers during the two wars. Jellicoe Specials were set up because coastal colliers were threatened by u boats. I assume that domestic coal traffic that had been sent by sea must have also been sent by rail for the same reason - does anyone know?

The main areas for U-Boat activity affecting coastal coal traffic in WWI were the Irish sea, including off the west end of the Bristol Channel, the North Sea and the Channel itself but not the narrow part.  And don't forget that the royal Navy took numerous colliers under its control to move the coal from the various East Coast ports to Scapa Flow and, of course, also to vessels based elsewhere on the  Scottish east coast.  As some of the journeys were quite long it required a lot of supply ships and colliers to ensure continuity of supply to the Grand Fleet.  The couple of hundred miles from Leith to Scapa Flow in a ship which could probably only manage 10 knots in ideal condition was going to take minimum of 20 hours and probably in reasonable weather more like 24 hours at the very best. 

[The Johnster]

Time to mention Snowflake, which I first heard of from my father who was familiar with her in the late 20s and early 30s as an apprentice Cardiff PIlot.  You may be familiar with her from KNP of this very parish as ever is, as he has made an entirely cromulent model of her on Little Muddle.  She was owned by her captain and registered at his home port of Ilfracombe, and made her living delivering South Wales coal for the town's gasworks, and returning up-Channel with dairy goods.  She was a secondhand Clyde Puffer, a type of vessel designed for the relatively sheltered waters of the Clyde, the Scottish canals and the island-sheltered ports, and drastically unsuitable for service in the extreme tidal currents, sandbanks, shoals, and unsrestrained weather of the Bristol Channel, and was rather frequently in trouble, having to be towed off things she'd run aground or being blown to places she wasn't oringinally intending to visit.  Father was impressed at the juxtapositon of such a dainty name and the whiteness it evoked with the filth he often saw he covered in leaving Cardiff, Penarth, or Barry after loading coal...

 

There is, or was some years ago, a framed photo of her in the bar of the Pier Hotel in Ilfracombe, with a short piece of doggerel describing her final financial collapse which resulted in captain and crew having to go on the dole.

[DCB]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

But exactly the same coal was tipped into ships cargo holds at South Wales docks - albeit with special precautions to limit damage to it.   I often wonder if the story about no mechanical coaling plants on the GWR was a ruse invented by Swindon to cover up for their lack of investment in such things ?

Harold Holcroft of the GWR and later SR, who invented the "Gresley" conjugated valve gear and designed the  curved  styling for the later Churchward locos, suggested the 43XX be built as 2-6-0s not 2-6-2T etc  reckoned the mechanical plants wasted around 10% of the soft south wales coal as unusable dust  compared to the GW and LSWR system.  That was why he recommended the SR retain their existing "primitive" coaling system.
A bonus of Soft high calorific content GW Loco coal is it didn't burn well on open fires which deterred folk from nicking it

 

The GW Loco Coal came from a couple of (Eastern) South Wales collieries between the steam coal seams to the centre and west and the house coal to the east in the Forest of Dean. 

 

 "Parkend" and similar forest colliery P.O wagons distributed House coal over a fair chunk of the south west, they remained busy even when the bottom fell out  of the Welsh steam coal business post WW1 and again after the coal strike.  Steam coal is very slow burning and pretty much useless for locomotives and even more useless for household grates.

 

Back pre 1939  P.O wagons basically worked between the owners coliiery and the coal merchant, or the "owner's" coal business and the Colliery from which they got their supplies.   A lot were leased but ran with the Colliery co or merchant's names.  You would not see wagons from one colliery owner at a rivals premises, merchants wagons at sidings where the merchant did not have a presence were equally rare,   All this ended when Mr Chaimberlain declared war on Herr Hiter in1939 due to an argument about the polish, I mean Polish at which point wagons became common user.

 

I feel if your layout is a fictitious location at the end of a branch either modelling wagons belonging to a large operator with many depots or inventing your own fictitious business with its own wagons and livery will look more convincing than having wagons owned by someone based at a single location, other wise use colliery owned wagons

[Hal Nail]

I dont have my copy of this to hand but someome may be able to check the chapter on coal/minerals.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Freight-Devon-Cornwall-David-Mitchell/dp/1857944739

 

In fact its mentioned in this similar discussion:

 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2022 by Hal Nail

[Rivercider]

The Exeter to Newton Abbot book by Peter Kay mentions that the Torquay based coal merchants of Renwick Wilton and Dobson installed the coal grader/loader at Teignmouth Docks to handle the coal imports. Did they have their own wagon fleet?

 

cheers