GWR locomotive nameplate lettering

[David Bigcheeseplant]

I am looking for the font for GWR locomotive lettering, I am sure I have seen it in a book but cant find it which one. Can someone point me in the right direction or post an image.

 

David

[The Stationmaster]

There is some stuff near the final pages of Volume 2 of Russell's GWR engines book, nothing in the 2nd edition of 'Great Western Way' but I seem to recall seeing some dimensioned drawings somewhere - first edition of 'Great Western Way' I suspect.  The GWS might well have the original Swindon drawings and they sell scans of those drawings at very reasonable prices.

[Mike_Walker]

Mike is quite correct, there are good, dimensioned, reproductions of the entire font in the first (1978) edition of Great Western Way.

[David Bigcheeseplant]

I have the latest edition and it was not in there, I am sure I have an earlier edition somewhere, just a case of finding it now.

[Harlequin]

In the second edition of GWW, Appendix 12 on page A24 shows all the letters with enough dimensions to create the letter shapes with correct proportions BUT the diagram is very pixelated so the lines jump around a bit.

 

Edit: There is a font available for this lettering on https://gwr-elist-2019.groups.io/ called "Swindon Normal".

 

Edited June 8, 2022 by Harlequin

[Artless Bodger]

In case it is of use, on page 67 of the combined volume of Brian Haresnape's Railway Liveries 1923-1947 is a half page reproduction of what might be a GWR blueprint: Standard Letters for engine nameplates, Swindon, December 1937. It has not reproduced perfectly. Numbers are shown on the same page.

[rodent279]

It's a close approximation of Egyptian font. I think it's a bit condensed though.

[Harlequin]

Quote from fonts.google.com: "Slab serif—also called Egyptian, Clarendon, or simply “slab”—is a group of typefaces close to sans serifs in their construction, including their generally low stroke contrast, but possessing serifs that match the overall stroke." https://fonts.google.com/knowledge/glossary/slab_serif_egyptian_clarendon

 

Here are examples of the fonts on my machine:

 

Swindon Normal looks a bit small (they are all the same point size) but I think it is the closest to the shapes in GWW.

 

[DCB]

I think it's important to remember the nameplates are made up of individual brass letters rivetted to a steel plate, so the letters are standard, the spacing is not.  I once spent ages trying to fake WR smokebox numbers using the fonts in Faststone image viewer and found the spacing was more important tan the actual font.  I can't remember which font I used but it looked a lot better than the brass ones.

Edited June 9, 2022 by DCB

[The Stationmaster]

12 hours ago, DCB said:

I think it's important to remember the nameplates are made up of individual brass letters rivetted to a steel plate, so the letters are standard, the spacing is not.  I once spent ages trying to fake WR smokebox numbers using the fonts in Faststone image viewer and found the spacing was more important tan the actual font.  I can't remember which font I used but it looked a lot better than the brass ones.

WR smokebox number plates - with a few early exceptions - were one piece ferrous castings made in Swindon foundry.  A few late examples were hand painted - possibly at depot level? - on a piece of rectangular sheet material, not sure if it was metal or wood, and seem to have been use as subsititutes for a cast smokebox plate.  GWR cabside number plates were a one piece casting - either in brass or a ferrous material.

[David Bigcheeseplant]

I found an old issue of Great Western Way with the lettering, So took a photo imported it to Fusion where I drew each letter I needed before putting them on the loco.  

 

I have noticed on some of the Fire fly class when they altered the spring hangers they drilled straight through the letters to fit it!

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

WR smokebox number plates - with a few early exceptions - were one piece ferrous castings made in Swindon foundry.  A few late examples were hand painted - possibly at depot level? - on a piece of rectangular sheet material, not sure if it was metal or wood, and seem to have been use as subsititutes for a cast smokebox plate.  GWR cabside number plates were a one piece casting - either in brass or a ferrous material.

 

There was a good article about the replacements in one of the railway magazines a few years ago. I think it was Railway Magazine.

 

The metal ones were usually made out of large catering size soup tins by enthusiasts and known as "Soup Tin Specials". The old railway museum at Lytham St Annes had a few of them on the wall

 

The most distinctive and noticeable one is 1453. Notice how thin it is compared to a BR numberplate.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gricerman/15872209544

 

 

Jason

[Miss Prism]

52 minutes ago, David Bigcheeseplant said:

 

I thought those nameplates were usually fitted on their own backing plate

 

[Mike_Walker]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

There was a good article about the replacements in one of the railway magazines a few years ago. I think it was Railway Magazine.

 

The metal ones were usually made out of large catering size soup tins by enthusiasts and known as "Soup Tin Specials". The old railway museum at Lytham St Annes had a few of them on the wall

 

The most distinctive and noticeable one is 1453. Notice how thin it is compared to a BR numberplate.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gricerman/15872209544

 

 

Jason

1453's replacement plate was made out of wood by the staff at Slough shed.  It was a regular on the Marlow Donkey at the time.

[DCB]

Deleted

Edited June 10, 2022 by DCB

[Steamport Southport]

2 hours ago, DCB said:

Agree smokebox numbers were cast iron as were many cab side numbers for lesser locos.   It may be replicas but I am pretty sure the "brass" numbers are individual Brass numbers rivetted to a steel plate with a brass rim like the nameplates. I'm pretty sure the WSR shifted the numbers on their mogul ( 9351's ?)  number plate from the original 5193.

 

Definitely not. 

 

9351 has a copy of the GWR Absorbed locomotive style numberplates but with WSR instead of GWR. 

 

5193 never carried cabside numberplates in preservation. I wonder what happened to 5193s SB numberplate though as I remember painting it!

 

Yes, it was a wooden replica. It also had the GWR style buffer beam numbers at one point as we were trying to get people to guess what livery we were planning on. It disappeared when somebody decided to paint a daft TTTE face on it....

 

 

Jason