Welcome to TT:120

[Compound2632]

36 minutes ago, whart57 said:

When I have had my Thai stuff (3mm scale on 9mm gauge) get into print Continental Modeller call it TTm

 

Which implies that TT means 3 mm/ft scale rather than 0.1 in/ft scale! Since you are making a gauge approximation anyway - 9 mm gauge standing in for true scale metre gauge at 9.84 mm - it just goes to show what a mess the hobby has got itself into in defining scale/gauge combinations! 

 

I like @Hobby's suggestion, but wouldn't TT3 be even nearer the mark!

Edited November 2, 2022 by Compound2632

[Hobby]

5 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Which implies that TT means 3 mm/ft scale rather than 0.1 in/ft scale! Since you are making a gauge approximation anyway - 9 mm gauge standing in for true scale metre gauge at 9.84 mm - it just goes to show what a mess the hobby has got itself into in defining scale/gauge combinations! 

 

Quite, though TTm is a recognised designation for TT 1:120 using 9mm track to represent metre gauge on the Continent, they accept the discrepancy, it's a lot closer for 3ft 6ins/1067mm gauge, though. I have some of the Shapeways bodies for future use as though I like TT scale I didn't like the 6.5mm track I used on my TTe layout, though that is spot on for 750/760mm gauge!

 

Trying to sort out NG designations would give Andy an even bigger headache than this thread does!! 🤣

Edited November 2, 2022 by Hobby

[britishcolumbian]

26 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Which implies that TT means 3 mm/ft scale rather than 0.1 in/ft scale!

Hardly, since the designation "TT" originated with Hal Joyce's 1" = 10' scale.

[Compound2632]

3 minutes ago, britishcolumbian said:

Hardly, since the designation "TT" originated with Hal Joyce's 1" = 10' scale.

 

As I have often been told. My point was, that in this instance, the editors of Continental Modeller were using TT to describe a model built at 3 mm/ft scale, with the suffix m indicating that it represented a metre gauge prototype, though the model used 9 mm gauge.

 

This morass makes me wonder how they would deal with the common practice of modelling Irish railways at 4 mm/ft scale using 16.5 mm gauge!

[D9020 Nimbus]

Or how about the models John Brewer made of GWR broad gauge locos and stock  to 1:120 scale running on 16.5mm track? He dubbed it BOTTE, for "broad on TT European".

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

Or how about the models John Brewer made of GWR broad gauge locos and stock  to 1:120 scale running on 16.5mm track? He dubbed it BOTTE, for "broad on TT European".

 

A quick calculation shows the 16.5 mm gauge was a bit under scale and he would have been closer with EM!

[natterjack]

Seems Gaugemaster has done a Heljan, Class 66 apparently cancelled.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/stockdetail?sid=908498

[Hobby]

Not surprising.

[britishcolumbian]

Given Mehano were doing alright with their Blue Tiger in TT, I think there's something really wrong with their Class 66 design... and now Gaugemaster gave up on it after likewise being unable to fix it.

[eldomtom2]

It looks like Hornby are getting what they want - the problem is, I'm not sure a new scale on its own will be enough to save them. They have failed to use TT as a chance to reconceptualiise their ideas of what a train set is, for instance - they are just doing the exact same thing they do in OO, just in a different scale.

[britishcolumbian]

3 minutes ago, eldomtom2 said:

It looks like Hornby are getting what they want - the problem is, I'm not sure a new scale on its own will be enough to save them. They have failed to use TT as a chance to reconceptualiise their ideas of what a train set is, for instance - they are just doing the exact same thing they do in OO, just in a different scale.

They won't stay alone forever. There are two options: the attempt flops, or it succeeds. If it flops, British 1:120 will stick around as a niche scale like 3mm. If it succeeds... Tillig will eventually get involved, just because it's TT and their need to be top dog in the scale.

[NCB]

3 hours ago, natterjack said:

Seems Gaugemaster has done a Heljan, Class 66 apparently cancelled.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/stockdetail?sid=908498

Announced over a week ago. Says more about Heljan and Gaugemaster than TT-120.

 

The big question is where do Dapol and Bachmann stand.

[Compound2632]

23 minutes ago, NCB said:

Says more about Heljan and Gaugemaster than TT-120.

 

That they have concluded that discretion is the better part of valour?

 

23 minutes ago, NCB said:

The big question is where do Dapol and Bachmann stand.

 

Well clear, I should imagine. Fools rush in where angels* fear to tread.

 

*vide supra.

Edited November 3, 2022 by Compound2632

[D9020 Nimbus]

Dapol seem to lack design capacity, at least in N gauge — it takes a long time for anything new to make it to market. But, they are able to get re-releases from existing tooling out quite often.

 

I doubt Bachmann will get involved — though I will change my mind if they say they'll never do it (as in, "we'll never do the Midland Pullman" or "we'll never do overhead electrics—especially in N gauge").

[D9020 Nimbus]

4 hours ago, natterjack said:

Seems Gaugemaster has done a Heljan, Class 66 apparently cancelled.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/stockdetail?sid=908498

Old news. And the class 66 was never announced, just quoted as a vague possibility, so wasn't really cancelled.

[eldomtom2]

2 hours ago, britishcolumbian said:

If it succeeds... Tillig will eventually get involved, just because it's TT and their need to be top dog in the scale.

Maybe. The circumstances are undoubtedly different to previous times in which Tillig has perceived competition.

[BRTrainz]

3 hours ago, eldomtom2 said:

It looks like Hornby are getting what they want - the problem is, I'm not sure a new scale on its own will be enough to save them. They have failed to use TT as a chance to reconceptualiise their ideas of what a train set is, for instance - they are just doing the exact same thing they do in OO, just in a different scale.

Peco has wagons in the works and I don't see them dropping out on that, so Hornby still isn't alone in that department.

[Gary704]

4 hours ago, eldomtom2 said:

It looks like Hornby are getting what they want - the problem is, I'm not sure a new scale on its own will be enough to save them. They have failed to use TT as a chance to reconceptualiise their ideas of what a train set is, for instance - they are just doing the exact same thing they do in OO, just in a different scale.

I’m not sure Hornby need “saved”. They are a multi national company. They know what they’re doing. They don’t operate out of a garden shed!

[spamcan61]

17 minutes ago, Gary704 said:

I’m not sure Hornby need “saved”. They are a multi national company. They know what they’re doing. They don’t operate out of a garden shed!

They've been living off borrowed money for years; just because a company is big (in a very small field) doesn't make them invincible. I hope they succeed, I've ordered a set, but I certainly wouldn't take it as a given that the scale will take off commercially.

[britishcolumbian]

2 hours ago, eldomtom2 said:

Maybe. The circumstances are undoubtedly different to previous times in which Tillig has perceived competition.

Not so much about competition as wanting a chunk of every pie. But we'll see whether it's Tillig or someone else... now that a UK market has been opened up I think it's only a matter of time before British types that also run on the Continent are released. 

[Gary704]

On 03/11/2022 at 19:21, spamcan61 said:

They've been living off borrowed money for years; just because a company is big (in a very small field) doesn't make them invincible. I hope they succeed, I've ordered a set, but I certainly wouldn't take it as a given that the scale will take off commercially.

Everybody should hope they will succeed because it’s in the hobby’s interest. The anti Hornbyists may sneer and pontificate but the fact of the matter is that it’s Hornby that bring people into the hobby. No one else.

[Millimodels]

The one thing that Triang TT had was reliabillity. I never had problems with dirty track as long as I did rudimentary cleaning occasionaly. Scale length trains were not a problem either if you had whitemetal loco bodies on the standard chsssis. My 64 year old pannier can still pull 14 coach trains.

I want to see a comparable performance in the new scale.

[D9020 Nimbus]

I doubt that a new Pannier will pull that many coaches, somehow—though a real Pannier would never have been asked to, probably. With, I assume, Magnadhesion and a white metal body, it's no surprise it was that powerful. But Magnadhesion is as much a thing of the past as the steel rails it relied on.

[Millimodels]

Gem 57xx on Triang Jinty chassis, Kitmaster coaches with metal wheels and pinpoint axkes. Nickle silver track. My King pulled 22 coaches.

[Keith Addenbrooke]

49 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

I doubt that a new Pannier will pull that many coaches, somehow—though a real Pannier would never have been asked to, probably. With, I assume, Magnadhesion and a white metal body, it's no surprise it was that powerful. But Magnadhesion is as much a thing of the past as the steel rails it relied on.

Paddington Station Pilot perhaps?  I don’t know if 57xx locos had that duty, but I’m fairly certain the later 94xx class did.  Just a thought. As you say, modern models may not be as powerful, although there have been some (pleasant) surprises in other scales.

 

23 minutes ago, Millimodels said:

Gem 57xx on Triang Jinty chassis, Kitmaster coaches with metal wheels and pinpoint axkes. Nickle silver track. My King pulled 22 coaches.

Did the coach bogies also have metal bearings?  A King with 22 on - impressive (how long were your platforms?).
 

Oddly, plastic wheels have made something of a comeback in some areas (eg: American outline models), so as not to interfere with magnetic couplings.  Given that some American TT (1:120) modellers use N-Scale magnetic Micro-trains couplers, it could become something some TT:120 modellers over here might also be taking into consideration, for the same reason.  Keith.