britishcolumbian Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 So these aren't British subjects per se, but Arnold/Hornby announced for this year three DR (East German) refrigerated ferry wagons: https://de.arnoldmodel.com/products/dr-refrigerated-wagon-veb-fischwerk-sassnitz-period-iv-hn9740? https://de.arnoldmodel.com/products/dr-2-unit-pack-refrigerated-wagons-wernesgruner-pilsator-wernesgruner-pilsener-period-iv-hn9741? https://de.arnoldmodel.com/products/dr-refrigerated-wagon-radeberger-pilsner-period-iv-hn9742 Which as ferry wagons I imagine could have shown up in the UK on occasion, if there was a market for East German beer and fish... (cut price chip shop?) A Czech short-run producer named Krokodil did a model of these Italian Interfrigo wagons at some point, though I'm not sure of their availability now https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/ferryitalianinterfrigo I think I vaguely recall Tillig and/or Roco etc having released some other ferry wagons, but I don't remember specifics. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium andythenorth Posted June 20, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 20, 2022 Using David Larkin's Ferry Wagons book as a guide. All of the following lack ferry fittings, and might be out of gauge for the UK, but are otherwise close to vehicles used in the UK. They won't match exact diagrams, but squint and it might be ok? These are taken from https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/Loco+_and_+Wagons/Freight+cars+_and_+Goods+Wagons/gb/liste.html?spur=TT&gattung=Freight+cars+_and_+Goods+Wagons Low-side stake flats widely worked into the UK. Loads included steel, machinery, and delivery of railway bogies, and I believe occasionally military vehicles. Busch 31504 (and similar) High side 2 axle opens Similar styles were used by SNCF (50) and SNCB (20) on a range of traffics Tillig have a range of different door styles, and a variant with extended ends and a cover. There's a 3 pack here https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/Freight+cars+%26+Goods+Wagons/Gondola/Tillig-01036/gb/modell_372848.html Twin cone cement wagons 20 wagons similar to this worked in the UK in cement traffic. 2 axle vans Probably out of gauge for UK, would have to buy one to find out I think. Very similar pattern to vans that worked widely across the UK, but they tended to a relatively small height, judging by photos. Tank wagons There were so many tank wagon types that anything that fits the loading gauge could be fair game. And in some cases it might just be a case of modifying the top rails on the catwalk. Very similar barrel design to some VTG wagons used in ethylene-glycol traffic in the UK. Different colour though. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium andythenorth Posted June 20, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 20, 2022 4 axle curtain flat I suspect these are seriously out of gauge, which is a shame as they're nicely done, and there's a range of liveries. 4 axle sliding wall/roof van These are interesting as they have ferry fittings, but the UIC code is Hablins, and I think they're also seriously out of gauge for the UK. Probably for traffic to the nordics which maybe uses ferries? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
britishcolumbian Posted June 20, 2022 Author Share Posted June 20, 2022 31 minutes ago, andythenorth said: These are interesting as they have ferry fittings, but the UIC code is Hablins, and I think they're also seriously out of gauge for the UK. Probably for traffic to the nordics which maybe uses ferries? I think you're right - if I'm not wrong, Nordwaggon is a Swedish company. However there are similar cars seen here at https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/ferryvan - some of these look similar to models made by Roco and I think others, but that needs closer inspection. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium andythenorth Posted June 20, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 20, 2022 (edited) 19 hours ago, britishcolumbian said: Some of these look similar to models made by Roco and I think others, but that needs closer inspection. The european loading gauge vans (UIC code Hablins or similar) are strikingly larger than the UK gauge equivalents (Habfis and similar) 😉 Picture isn't ideal, but shows the difference. (Picture isn't mine, found via Google Images). Edited June 21, 2022 by andythenorth 2 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
britishcolumbian Posted June 20, 2022 Author Share Posted June 20, 2022 Wow. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
René Cortis Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 Hädl has also a ferry wagon: https://tt.haedl.de/product-829.html 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium andythenorth Posted June 21, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 21, 2022 7 hours ago, René Cortis said: Hädl has also a ferry wagon: https://tt.haedl.de/product-829.html Nice find. Also from Hädl, there's a (non-ferry-fitted) tanker that is similar to tankers used in UK bromine traffic. https://tt.haedl.de/Chemiekesselwagen-Uchs-zweiachsig--DR-Epoche-IV--TT.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
britishcolumbian Posted June 21, 2022 Author Share Posted June 21, 2022 That tanker is a nifty looking thing. Knowing nothing about British tankers yet, how much work would it be to Brit-ify that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR traction instructor Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 (edited) …it doesn’t resemble any tank wagon that I’ve seen on the British mainland. The site link below gives a reasonable flavour of what was seen here https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/ferrychemictank Have a look at the St Ruth layout on this site for some images of demountable bromine tanks that ran between Hayle and London during the late 60s/early 70s. BeRTIe Edited June 21, 2022 by BR traction instructor 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium andythenorth Posted June 21, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 21, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, BR traction instructor said: …it doesn’t resemble any tank wagon that I’ve seen on the British mainland. The tank cars in niche chemicals traffic seem to be very niche. Also from Paul's site: https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/dowbromine The resemblance is far from complete, but eh. 😉 Edited June 21, 2022 by andythenorth 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium maridunian Posted June 25, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 25, 2022 On 21/06/2022 at 07:20, andythenorth said: Nice find. Also from Hädl, there's a (non-ferry-fitted) tanker that is similar to tankers used in UK bromine traffic. https://tt.haedl.de/Chemiekesselwagen-Uchs-zweiachsig--DR-Epoche-IV--TT.html Seems quite similar to some of the Associated Octel wagons - https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/paulbartlettsrailwaywagonphotographs/h33f06928 Tank looks smaller, but it might just be that it's mounted on a larger wagon! Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium andythenorth Posted June 26, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 26, 2022 On 20/06/2022 at 22:35, andythenorth said: The european loading gauge vans (UIC code Hablins or similar) are strikingly larger than the UK gauge equivalents (Habfis and similar) 😉 Further research suggests the image I posted might reflect stark contrast between UK and the very large Deutsche Bahn gauge, per page 10 here 🙂 https://nl.dbcargo.com/resource/blob/1430008/9767e97bb070ccbbf77efd84e7d64948/freight_wagon_catalog_v2011-data.pdf "The Deutsche Bahn loading gauge is also used in the following countries: Albania, Austria, Bosnia Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Greece, Hungary, Iraq, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Macedonia, the Netherlands, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Syria and Turkey" "A number of countries, including France, Italy, Portugal, Spain and Switzerland have smaller loading gauges and this must be taken into account as described above when planning crossborder rail freight shipments involving these countries" So the contrast won't be as striking between UK gauge and what DB call 'international gauge' (which I think is synonymous with 'berne gauge'). But nonetheless it will be noticeable 😉 This is a good illustration of DB gauge vs 'international gauge ' , neither of these wagons would comply with UK loading gauge. 1 1 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
britishcolumbian Posted June 26, 2022 Author Share Posted June 26, 2022 Interesting that Spain and Portugal should have smaller loading gauges given their track gauge is like 8 inches wider... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 38 minutes ago, britishcolumbian said: Interesting that Spain and Portugal should have smaller loading gauges given their track gauge is like 8 inches wider... Most of the Iberian network was designed and built by British contractors, I believe, which may explain it. The same applies to part of the French network, notably the Cherbourg and Le Havre lines. A lot of money had to be spent on the latter to enable ISO boxes to be conveyed, including rebuilding and electrifying a line which avoided the Rouen area. A good place to see the contrast between loading gauges is in the lower Rhone valley. The major car companies, notably VAG, run trains between their Iberian plants and those in Germany and beyond. Such trains are composed of a mixture of bogie vans to Berne and German loading gauges, and some of the bogie and 4-wheel Transfesa ex-Ferry vans to UK Gauge. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 I'd like to see some suitable ferry chemical tankers - a regular traffic flow to a Midlands chemical works I used to live near gives me an idea for a layout. Haulage was often by Class 31 😉 The trafficstopped when the Chunnel opened & the rail ferry stopped, around 1995. 🙄 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenser Posted June 27, 2022 Share Posted June 27, 2022 On 26/06/2022 at 09:48, andythenorth said: Further research suggests the image I posted might reflect stark contrast between UK and the very large Deutsche Bahn gauge, per page 10 here 🙂 https://nl.dbcargo.com/resource/blob/1430008/9767e97bb070ccbbf77efd84e7d64948/freight_wagon_catalog_v2011-data.pdf "The Deutsche Bahn loading gauge is also used in the following countries: Albania, Austria, Bosnia Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Greece, Hungary, Iraq, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Macedonia, the Netherlands, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Syria and Turkey" "A number of countries, including France, Italy, Portugal, Spain and Switzerland have smaller loading gauges and this must be taken into account as described above when planning crossborder rail freight shipments involving these countries" So the contrast won't be as striking between UK gauge and what DB call 'international gauge' (which I think is synonymous with 'berne gauge'). But nonetheless it will be noticeable 😉 This is a good illustration of DB gauge vs 'international gauge ' , neither of these wagons would comply with UK loading gauge. There may be an awkward surprise in store , because the areas where TT is currently strong all seem to be to "DB gauge" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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