Brighton Trafalgar - An Edwardian LB&SCR Terminus

[Lacathedrale]

Hrm, not really - it's mostly the interface between the surface of the traverser and the end pieces I'm curious about? 

 

Anyway, here are some posed shots with my stock:

 

Having run around, E4 No. 579 prepares to shunt its train from P3 to P1. 

 

In the background, H2 No. 422 has coupled to the train in P2.

 

It's runaround complete, the E4 waits in P1. Terrier No. 82 in the process of shunting a rake of Stroudley four wheelers, while H2 No. 422  simmers in Platform 2 with the late morning Stockbroker Special to London consisting (in odd order) of a 48' Billinton All Third, a 50' Marsh 1st-2nd Composite, a 54' Marsh Brake Second with Luggage, and another 54' Brake Third. 

 

A closer view of H2 and the E4 from the footplate of the Terrier.

 

Another day, from the spire of a nearby church

[t-b-g]

18 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

Hrm, not really - it's mostly the interface between the surface of the traverser and the end pieces I'm curious about? 

 

Anyway, here are some posed shots with my stock:

 

Having run around, E4 No. 579 prepares to shunt its train from P3 to P1. 

 

In the background, H2 No. 422 has coupled to the train in P2.

 

It's runaround complete, the E4 waits in P1. Terrier No. 82 in the process of shunting a rake of Stroudley four wheelers, while H2 No. 422  simmers in Platform 2 with the late morning Stockbroker Special to London consisting (in odd order) of a 48' Billinton All Third, a 50' Marsh 1st-2nd Composite, a 54' Marsh Brake Second with Luggage, and another 54' Brake Third. 

 

A closer view of H2 and the E4 from the footplate of the Terrier.

 

Another day, from the spire of a nearby church

 

I like that. A lot!

[Lacathedrale]

Thank you Tony - I must admit, I'm beset by doubt. I'm not going to do anything drastic, just let it settle for a while. Very many 'but what if I....' thoughts are swirling.

 

I forgot one last shot:

 

It looks like the PW gang still have some work to do getting track panels in place, in this view from the roof of the Mocatta-designed station building. The civil engineers also need to do some work but looks like the platforms are being marked out. In Platform 1 the full length of the H2's "Cheap and Fast" is shown, five bogie carriages of third and second class, and the large Marsh tender locomotive just fitting into the longest platform road.

 

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by Lacathedrale

[burgundy]

6 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

Hrm, not really - it's mostly the interface between the surface of the traverser and the end pieces I'm curious about? 

 

Do these photos help? If not, can you explain what the actual problem is?

Two more in the following post as these have maxed out.

Best wishes 

Eric  

[burgundy]

And another couple.

Best wishes 

Eric 

[ianb3174]

I'm enjoying this thread, and the previous one. It mirrors my ongoing struggle to get something running without falling into the rabbit hole of scale and gauge. I have issues with space, having a cellar with limited headroom which also serves as my workshop and office (occassionally I'm allowed above ground, but not whilst guests are around). My layout would have to be end to end (3.6m long) or L shaped with a 90 degree turn that could only be 750mm radius at best, adding another 2.4m to the mix. 

Having had a micro bodge with some Peco BH turnouts I'm happy (not really, really happy mind) that 00 will do for a shelf layout. I'll know, but will use the experience to inform later layouts. I'll be viewing it at eye level mainly so the compromise won't be so bad. 

I have also been hamstrung by not having proper baseboards, just smaller bits of different dimensions which have been hacked together. Yesterday I picked up a 'proper' baseboard unit from the lads at G&H and have spent the morning glueing it together. 

[Lacathedrale]

Thank you for those pictures, @burgundy - I saw the same traverser in use at ScaleForum and it appears to have the same issue as mine - the outer ends (on which the deck slides) are too tall and causing lots of friction. The layout at Scaleforum showed obvious signs of having these planed or sanded down.

 

 

@ianb3174 in addition to the 'oh god do I really want to do this' of actually finally having all the parts and components to hand, I was also a little disheartened to have the 1-2 punch fo Vivien Thompsons 'Eastbourne' and then Michael Ball's 'Ferring' come up sequentially on my reading list - hard to follow those two up, eh? :) 

 

I think it was a solid plan to not be drastic though, as with a few weeks removed the positives outweigh any potential drawbacks. I'm still not sold on the gauge, end-on it looks awful - but realistically that's not a viewing angle I am expecting and hopefully with some Mikkel or Nevard-like hard work it will end up looking OK despite the gauge.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Lacathedrale

[Lacathedrale]

I've never actually managed to figure out an aftermarket parts coupling system - my 2mmFS wagons still don't have any couplings at all! 

 

With my 4mm stuff, I decided to fit three-link and screw-link couplings in the interim, and then whatever system I eventually end up with I can make the relevant modifications as required. 

 

I figured I may as well setup something of a torture track for the couplings and see what happens:

 

 

The particular arrangement like this won't actually be used - but this is the 'worst' possible combination. I did think I gave myself brain damage trying to thread the screw link couplers on though, so may well be a moot point :)

[Lacathedrale]

Laying this out, one handed, while holding baby was about as far as I've gotten today:

 

 

The parallel track spacing in XtrkCAD doesn't always match up to reality - so on the plan all these turnouts are connected by tiny bits of rail. I'm going to try to get rid of those - and I think all of it butts up together apart from the obvious join shown above?

 

First, I need to get the WS Roadbed sheets down, but I think I'm going to hold off on that until tomorrow, when mum and baby are out for the day in London and I have a clear few hours.

 

I'm still pretty unsure whether to go for DC or DCC as discussed at length earlier in this thread, but I think for now I'll fit insulated joiners and fit droppers which could be bonded for DCC (or DC testing), and left switchable for route-set DC. 

 

 

[Dana Ashdown]

On 20/10/2022 at 12:26, Lacathedrale said:

I'm still pretty unsure whether to go for DC or DCC as discussed at length earlier in this thread, but I think for now I'll fit insulated joiners and fit droppers which could be bonded for DCC (or DC testing), and left switchable for route-set DC. 

From what I've read, fitting the wiring for DCC is wise if you have PECO Bullhead track, even if you'll only run with DC. It gives you the option to switch in future without having to rip everything up.

[Caley Jim]

5 hours ago, Dana Ashdown said:

From what I've read, fitting the wiring for DCC is wise if you have PECO Bullhead track, even if you'll only run with DC. It gives you the option to switch in future without having to rip everything up.

My original layout, a small branch terminus 'Connerburn', was built in the days before DCC and was divided electrically into three separate sections. When I fitted decoders to my locos and went DCC all I had to do was leave all three section switches on.  Points and signal were mechanically operated via wire in tube.  My current layout, Kirkallanmuir, has no electrical sectioning other than the insulating breaks required between turnouts which form a crossover.  For a larger layout some 'sectioning' is recommended, but only to help identify the location of a short, should one occur.  I just disconnect the plugs between the 3 boards to do that.

 

Jim

[Lacathedrale]

The difference between ET's wiring is the insulating breaks required in the throat to permit power routing via the frog switches - the wiring is alot more complex. I've come a decision though - the last thing I want to do with this is need to shelve it for a while and then come back and have a rats nest of incomprehensible wires and switches to figure out. Even if the turnouts and signals are all manually actuated, the control of the locos will be DCC. Well, it will be wired as DCC but initially operated as DC while I figure this all out.

 

Couldn't resist a little track bodging though - this is the first of many adjustments to the timbering.

Edited October 23, 2022 by Lacathedrale

[Lacathedrale]

Look what Father Halloween brought through the letterbox today?

 

 

Yes, I know the 6w carriages should be umber in my time period, etc. but I'm not QUITE ready to take a brush to them!

 

What I am going to do, however - is make sure they run through the bullhead single slip without catapulting off the rails.

[Edwardian]

4 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

Look what Father Halloween brought through the letterbox today?

 

 

Yes, I know the 6w carriages should be umber in my time period, etc. but I'm not QUITE ready to take a brush to them!

 

What I am going to do, however - is make sure they run through the bullhead single slip without catapulting off the rails.

 

Mine are on the way. I'm going to keep one as a reasonable proxy for a Billinton, and cut the others up for the West Norfolk!

[Lacathedrale]

The billinton 50’ brake third is slowly making its way towards completion from the pair of Triang GWR clerestory coaches. Honestly the repetition is what’s doing me in - I need a break from carriages!!

[Lacathedrale]

Though I am well and truly sick of coaches, it feels churlish to stop on this one given that I've got just the underframe details and the roof to do...

 

16 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

Mine are on the way. I'm going to keep one as a reasonable proxy for a Billinton, and cut the others up for the West Norfolk!

 

It's bizarre that the RTR manufacturers have this obsession with LBSCR Mahogany - particularly given the red brake ends, 6w stock, and non-close-coupled sets are only even remotely compatible with a single RTR locomotive in the Terrier. I know the E1 is coming, but where are the D's, G's? Madness! 

 

Excuse the Sam's Trains floorcam, but looks like the 6w coaches are going to be just fine on the slip:

 

 

As I understand it, these will need the footboards removed and either heavy weathering, or repainting into all-over Umber - that should be fun! 

 

[burgundy]

On 19/10/2022 at 08:47, Lacathedrale said:

Thank you for those pictures, @burgundy - I saw the same traverser in use at ScaleForum and it appears to have the same issue as mine - the outer ends (on which the deck slides) are too tall and causing lots of friction. The layout at Scaleforum showed obvious signs of having these planed or sanded down.

 

 

 

I have looked a couple of times at the ends of my traversers to try to understand what might be wrong. I have two, end to end, giving a 6 foot set of sidings, and while the two units need to be slid quite carefully to avoid wiggle, they do move freely. It is a little while since I built them but is there a component that might be upside down?

Best wishes 

Eric  

[Lacathedrale]

Thanks Eric, I did a double-check and they are all the correct way around, etc. - the only thing that comes to mind is maybe there's some adjustment leeway in the bolt holes for the traverser and I've got them at the wrong end of that adjustment. I've been laid low for the last week or so with a rather horrid cold, so work has been confined to my bureau in the livingroom. I did however manage to nab a Horsted Keynes signalbox model online for a fair price, so that just requires repainting to LBSCR colours and job done (for now!)

[Lacathedrale]

A bit of anxiety now - I’m not sure how to proceed.

 

I’ve got the three major subassemblies of the throat soldered together, and having laid them out on the boards I’ve marked and drill holes for frog wires and turnout actuation - but now I’m a bit at a loss of what to do next? I’m using Woodland Scenics foam tack glue and foam roadbed, so I guess I need to align up the throat exit onto the FY and start gluing it down? Maybe using L-shaped brass wire dropped through tie bar holes to ensure all those holes line up properly? I feel like a dunce for having to ask this but I've had a bit of a mental blocker going on with the layout recently and I want to kick-start it!

 

I also managed, finally, to nab a Dapol Umber Terrier, so now Boxhill can be re-wheeled to a 2-4-0 without drama, once I figure out how to do that.

[Nick C]

Solder the frog wires on first, if you've not already done so. Then you can either glue them all down together, or one at a time - this really depends on how much adjustment time the glue gives you. I used gorilla wood glue on my current one, which gave about 20 minutes - plenty of time to tweak the adjustment and run a wagon back and forth through all routes until I was happy with it. I also drilled out the holes for the actuating rods a bit oversized (10mm) so there was room if the tie bars didn't end up exactly in the right place - as several didn't! 

[Lacathedrale]

2 hours ago, Nick C said:

Solder the frog wires on first, if you've not already done so. Then you can either glue them all down together, or one at a time - this really depends on how much adjustment time the glue gives you. I used gorilla wood glue on my current one, which gave about 20 minutes - plenty of time to tweak the adjustment and run a wagon back and forth through all routes until I was happy with it. I also drilled out the holes for the actuating rods a bit oversized (10mm) so there was room if the tie bars didn't end up exactly in the right place - as several didn't! 

How did you stop the ballast going down the hole that big!?

[Nick C]

39 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

How did you stop the ballast going down the hole that big!?

Most of it is covered by the tiebar and adjacent timbers (this is with British Finescale kits) - I don't ballast between them as I'd only end up clogging the whole thing up, and you don't notice once it's all painted. Any gaps outside of the timbers are easily filled after laying with a little offcut of cork or even just a blob of glue, before ballasting over.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Nick C

[St Enodoc]

11 hours ago, Nick C said:

Most of it is covered by the tiebar and adjacent timbers (this is with British Finescale kits) - I don't ballast between them as I'd only end up clogging the whole thing up, and you don't notice once it's all painted. Any gaps outside of the timbers are easily filled after laying with a little offcut of cork or even just a blob of glue, before ballasting over.

You can also use a piece of thin paper to cover the hole, with a slot cut in it for the actuating rod, that you locate when laying the point.

[Lacathedrale]

Thank you - a slip of thin card with a slot underneath sounds like a decent idea too. I'm hoping to get the boards out onto the dining table today and seeing some meaningful progress...

 

Clerestory to Billinton 54' 

In other news, I had a good clean up of my workbench and brought out the Billinton coach conversions again. The one vehicle I really wanted to include was a Brake 2nd with Luggage, but somehow it had ended up about 15mm shorter than it should be - a whole panel missing. Alone it wouldn't be all that noticeable, but in a rake with the other vehicles it was bound to stick out like a sore thumb, particularly since it is so distinctive.

 

Luckily, I found a spare Clerestory composite end from my box of junk and I can re-splice the end on. It does involve more razorsawing 🙄 and yet even more cutting and shaping of carriage ands and partitions 🙄🙄 so I'm not sure how high up the priority list it is - but I do at least have a solution for a nagging problem. To illustrate the point, the new end is placed above the old, with the splice locations adjacent:

 

 

 

Terry Gough is a clever chap but the articles were written in a narrative rather than declarative form and so either I muddled it up, or it wasn't clear - take your pick! These conversions are really a 'best effort' thing, and honestly at this stage I think I would have been better off just buying the Branchlines kits - but nevertheless, this should hopefully end up being a decent approximation.

 

Terrible Terriers

I also caved in and bought a hilariously overpriced Umber terrier: 

 

This means that Boxhill will be freed for conversion to a 2-4-0T for balloon trailer working, and branchlines DO have a kit for that! 

 

Victorian Rolling Stock

I'm going to wait until the layout is functional, but my gut feeling now is to re-wheel my Victorian rolling stock to 00 so I can use it, retaining the EM wheels for a future EM-SF experiment in due course. This layout is never really going to be a goods layout, but it might be nice to have some variety - trains reversing out of the east coastway and upward to London/etc.

 

Layout Setting

Speaking of upward to London, I have spent some time mulling over the idea of this being a subsidiary Brighton station, or being a fictional Wye terminus off the BML serving the (relatively) wealthy communities of Cuckfield and Lindfield in Mid Sussex. I would be shorn of the overall roof, the pullmans and the atlantics in that context, but maybe it might be plausible enough with my menagerie of A1, E1, E4's (and hopefully some kit build D's and I's in future) and less of a leap of faith? Time will tell - I can hear arguments both ways and I think I need to get the layout a bit further along, as the trackplan is not likely to change.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Lacathedrale

[Lacathedrale]

Layout

Well, foam-tack glue has been applied to track and is currently weighted down for the first stage of the throat. Fingers and toes crossed for me please, gents! 

 

Should I include my stock building in this thread, or in my workbench thread? I thought here would be good but I'm wondering if it's misplaced?