Brighton Trafalgar - An Edwardian LB&SCR Terminus

[Lacathedrale]

Yes, which would work except when/if someone opens the door without removing the building and it gets crushed, which I'm sure will be inevitable! I could lower the layout a little, I guess? 

 

Anyway, I got the boards together for the first time and they're good - and my little Terrier runs though the whole layout with just a single DC feed from one of the throat tracks, which I guess is thanks to the trickery of the Peco Unifrog points! 

 

 

 

I then pulled my finger out and got the foam laid on the second board:

 

 

I'm pleased that it doesn't look too crowded. I'll trim the edges of the foam back once the track is laid, I'll either have to wait until the shelf supports arrive to be fitted to the wall, or the domestic authorities vacate the premises for long enough for me to get the boards in, track laid and glued in place, the glue to harden up, and then the tracks split again.

 

Speaking of splitting, my broad idea is to cut away the foam under the rail joins and replace with 6mm ply araldited in place, with 0.5mm pcb sleepers between that and the track. It has only just occurred to me that I'm going to have to use foam underlay in my fiddle yard to bring the height of the tracks up properly, and some more 6mm platforms for the alignment pins to fit into.

[Matloughe]

Thats a fantastic spread of pointwork, and an equally gorgeous locomotive to be testing it all out with!

I look forwards to seeing more.
Kind Regards,
Gary

[t-b-g]

On one version of Buckingham, there was a small hinged section that lifted up to clear the door, although in that case, it was a conventional room door. Your building could be on a short drop down or lift up section at the end of the baseboard. If it stays in the "clear" position unless you are in the garage running the layout, with the key to the garage door with you, nobody else can open it from the outside.

 

This may be a ridiculous idea but nobody has ever accused me of being sensible. Would the station building be OK if it was attached to a shelf fixed onto the garage door?

 

 

[Nick C]

Or fix a rigid stop that prevents the door being opened too much when the building is in place? 

[Lacathedrale]

I’m not sure how to avoid the wavy edge on the roof - I’ve immersed multiple times into hot water while well taped to a wine bottle and I just end up with this.

 

I’m not sure if styrene angle along the inside edge would help or hinder?

 

Or maybe immerse a much wider sheet and then cut the middle out for yse and discarding the rest?

[Compound2632]

26 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

I’m not sure how to avoid the wavy edge on the roof - I’ve immersed multiple times into hot water while well taped to a wine bottle and I just end up with this.

 

Did you tape along the whole length of the edge?

 

27 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

Or maybe immerse a much wider sheet and then cut the middle out for yse and discarding the rest?

 

I don't speak from direct experience but I have thought of this as a way of avoiding the tendency of the plasticard to stay flat at the edges - not quite following the curve of the bottle. I think one would only need a few millimetes each side. Or one could make several roofs by wrapping the plasticard right round the bottle.

 

What thickness of plasticard are you using?

[Caley Jim]

Did you wrap the sellotape around the bottle or along the length? 

 

Jim

[Lacathedrale]

I wrapped it around, overlapping - should I have gone along?

[phil_sutters]

The edge of the roof looks very thin. That is doubtless what it should look like, but how are you supporting that thin sheet along the length of the coach? Based on the photo of the brake/third, your compartment walls seem to have the same height and cross section as the ends, so there looks as if there is no longitudinal substructure to support the thin top layer of the roof. Thin plastic card will probably droop fairly quickly between the compartment walls and you may have trouble fitting ventilators and lamp tops.

 

P.S. Be very careful what you use to stick down thin plastic card. Solvent-based glues can cause dips in the surface of the roof. I know from experience. Double sided tape can be an alternative.

Edited January 2, 2023 by phil_sutters

[Siberian Snooper]

When I have used plasticard for rooves, I do a framework similar to an aircraft wing, as in model aircraft. The coach side edges of the framework sit inside the coach sides. Make sure that the frame doesn't show in the windows.

 

 

[Pacific231G]

On 30/12/2022 at 12:27, t-b-g said:

It gets confusing when you have a loco trapped at the buffer stop end of a terminus. That was the front but then becomes the back, except at Dorchester South where it might well still be the front.

Or as the builder of the layout you now look after might put it. "The first shall be last and the last shall be first". 

In terms of operational "bang for the buck" reversing termini have a lot going for them, especially if the trains "going on" lost or gained a vehicle or two. I'm fond of quoting Fort William (old) where a terminus with just two points could provide gainful employment for two pilot locos at more frantic times as sleepers or restaurant cars from Glasgow (en route from London)  were removed and the observation car for the run to Mallaig added with trains from both - and possibly a relief- occupying the station at the same time.  A car carrying GUV (for those wanting to avoid the single track with passing places "A" road from Malalig) and assorted fish vans all added to the fun.

There were a number of such stations in Britain- Norwich (Thorpe),  Inverness and Bath (Green Park) come immediately to mind and, travelling around Europe, when a lot of making and breaking of trains with through carriages took place, it was a good idea to know where the reverses were in order to not end up  with one's back to the engine on particularly scenic sections of line.   

[Pacific231G]

On 31/12/2022 at 13:43, t-b-g said:

On one version of Buckingham, there was a small hinged section that lifted up to clear the door, although in that case, it was a conventional room door. Your building could be on a short drop down or lift up section at the end of the baseboard. If it stays in the "clear" position unless you are in the garage running the layout, with the key to the garage door with you, nobody else can open it from the outside.

 

This may be a ridiculous idea but nobody has ever accused me of being sensible. Would the station building be OK if it was attached to a shelf fixed onto the garage door?

 

 

Maybe not such a good idea if it's the only entrance lest anything should happen to you and nobody could reach you through the locked door. For the same reason there has been advice to avoid inward opening doors if a lift-up section would block them. 

[Caley Jim]

34 minutes ago, Pacific231G said:

Or as the builder of the layout you now look after might put it. "The first shall be last and the last shall be first". 

At Glasgow Central when a train off the intensive Cathcart Circle service arrived the loco uncoupled and pulled forward.  Another loco then came off a lye siding on the Clyde Bridge, coupled up and subsequently departed back round the Circle.  The train was followed out by the original loco which went into the lye.  The process being repeated with each arrival.

 

When we were in Sydney we went to get the Manley Ferry.  It came into Circular Quay (which isn't circular BTW) bow first (as I thought) so when we got on we sat at that 'pointy' end.  When it didn't turn round after 'backing' out of the dock I went to investigate, only to find that it was 'pointy' at both ends!  ☹️

 

Jim

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, Pacific231G said:

Or as the builder of the layout you now look after might put it. "The first shall be last and the last shall be first". 

In terms of operational "bang for the buck" reversing termini have a lot going for them, especially if the trains "going on" lost or gained a vehicle or two. I'm fond of quoting Fort William (old) where a terminus with just two points could provide gainful employment for two pilot locos at more frantic times as sleepers or restaurant cars from Glasgow (en route from London)  were removed and the observation car for the run to Mallaig added with trains from both - and possibly a relief- occupying the station at the same time.  A car carrying GUV (for those wanting to avoid the single track with passing places "A" road from Malalig) and assorted fish vans all added to the fun.

There were a number of such stations in Britain- Norwich (Thorpe),  Inverness and Bath (Green Park) come immediately to mind and, travelling around Europe, when a lot of making and breaking of trains with through carriages took place, it was a good idea to know where the reverses were in order to not end up  with one's back to the engine on particularly scenic sections of line.   

 

I think the real Fort William was designed by a modeller, intent on getting as much operational potential as possible out of a simple track layout.

 

I am surprised that it hasn't inspired more layouts than it has. I can only recall perhaps one or two.

 

The problem is probably the location and the lack of RTR locos such as K2s with Scottish railways being a bit of a minority interest. If it had been on the GWR it would have been modelled dozens of times.

 

I had it in mind when designing the new mini layout with only 3 points, although I made one of the roads a goods siding and added a loco spur.

 

 

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, Pacific231G said:

Maybe not such a good idea if it's the only entrance lest anything should happen to you and nobody could reach you through the locked door. For the same reason there has been advice to avoid inward opening doors if a lift-up section would block them. 

 

I did say that I wasn't always sensible. My mind goes back to a complex multilevel layout I used to operate. The upper level required operators to stand on stools to reach. The room was in two parts, reached by crawling through tiny tunnels under the lower level. There were a few near misses as people lost their balance and nearly fell. I once asked the owner how somebody would be extracted in the event of a medical emergency and his answer was that the layout would have to be destroyed.

 

Perhaps we go for a motorised lift up section that can be operated from a push button outside.

 

Or the building could be on a drop down section, secured with a pin attached to the door. Lift the door and the pin comes out and the building drops on a damped mechanism to stop damage.

 

There are always solutions to these sorts of problems.

[Pacific231G]

7 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

I think the real Fort William was designed by a modeller, intent on getting as much operational potential as possible out of a simple track layout.

 

I am surprised that it hasn't inspired more layouts than it has. I can only recall perhaps one or two.

 

The problem is probably the location and the lack of RTR locos such as K2s with Scottish railways being a bit of a minority interest. If it had been on the GWR it would have been modelled dozens of times.

 

I had it in mind when designing the new mini layout with only 3 points, although I made one of the roads a goods siding and added a loco spur.

 

 

Ian Futers did build an 0 gauge version of Ft. William, pretty much to scale AFAIR and modelled as far as the signalbox. He was kind enough to send me a copy of his movement sheets. He did though tell me that he hadn't liked it much and found it rather dull to operate at exhibtions.  I have neverthess been tempted by the idea of a fictional Dieppe inspired  Gare Maritime in France La Bastide Guillaume and have been eyeing up E.A. Beet's 0 gauge terminus.

 

As a private joke, I did once offer the late Carl Arendt a passenger Inglenook that would take five full length coaches on the long road and managed to get the whole thing into his four square feet "Microlayout" figure but only by  some elaborate tapering of the baseboards. In the end, the joke was on me as he published it as a Microlayout on his website.

 

Carl did the same with my equally light-hearted suggestion that Minories (in its TT form) also counted as a microlayout as its 60 x 8 or 9 inches was well within 4 square feet.  

Edited January 3, 2023 by Pacific231G
typos

[phil_sutters]

Of course through trains from Brighton or London have to reverse at Eastbourne to progress to Hastings or Ashford. I know that there was an avoiding line in the past, but I imagine a good number of services had to visit Eastbourne from either direction. I have only known the station in EMU/DMU days.

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by phil_sutters

[Lacathedrale]

I'm afraid not much progress other than laying some WS foam trackbed down on the boards. There have been no change of plans, just that over Christmas, and then whilst Skiing, the garage has been playing host to all the accoutrement of my camper van and so hardly in a position to do lots of modelling.

 

I have however got the shelf brackets, screws and rawlplugs to mount the board supports to the wall, so we should at least have it up and mounted in position for final track playing during the next increment of work.

[Lacathedrale]

I've taken a little diversion through to some historical wargaming in the intervening period, but with my painting queue looking rather sparse, the heretofore neglected Billinton Carriages are looming large.

 

I'm starting to wonder if balsa wood or laminated solid styrene are a better shout than trying to curve thinner sheet around a wine bottle. If I use lateral strips of tape I end up with a rippled edge. If I use longitudinal strips of tape then they're not strong enough to hold the styrene in place with the addition of water.

 

Does anyone have any insight?

[ChrisN]

11 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

I've taken a little diversion through to some historical wargaming in the intervening period, but with my painting queue looking rather sparse, the heretofore neglected Billinton Carriages are looming large.

 

I'm starting to wonder if balsa wood or laminated solid styrene are a better shout than trying to curve thinner sheet around a wine bottle. If I use lateral strips of tape I end up with a rippled edge. If I use longitudinal strips of tape then they're not strong enough to hold the styrene in place with the addition of water.

 

Does anyone have any insight?

 

What I do is to have the plasticard next to the bottle taped down, then on top of that have a sheet of cardboard, then wrap a flat bootlace around the card, like so

 

 

Works every time, as long as whatever you are forming it on is long enough.

[Lacathedrale]

Which way do you tape the plasticard to the bottle?  Are you submerging the whole thing? None of my bottles are long enough so mine has to be done in two stages, but that bit didn't seem to be a problem...

[ChrisN]

35 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

Which way do you tape the plasticard to the bottle?  Are you submerging the whole thing? None of my bottles are long enough so mine has to be done in two stages, but that bit didn't seem to be a problem...

 

I tape the plasticard down the sides.  I use masking tape as someone advised but as soon as the hot water hits the bottle it comes unstuck which is why I use the card and lace.  I fill the whole jar/bottle up, then leave it to cool.  I use very hot water out of the kettle, although when I said that on my thread someone was surprised I did not crack the container.  If I was needing something longer I would use a bottle and a funnel to help fill it so I did not get water on the outside.

[Lacathedrale]

21 hours ago, ChrisN said:

 

I tape the plasticard down the sides.  I use masking tape as someone advised but as soon as the hot water hits the bottle it comes unstuck which is why I use the card and lace.  I fill the whole jar/bottle up, then leave it to cool.  I use very hot water out of the kettle, although when I said that on my thread someone was surprised I did not crack the container.  If I was needing something longer I would use a bottle and a funnel to help fill it so I did not get water on the outside.

 

Oh, so you fill the bottle, and don't immerse the whole thing?  Interesting!!

 

[Lacathedrale]

Right, I think now the carriages are about as done as they're going to be structurally:

 

 

They are missing a few things, but I think they give a good impression and at this stage having them (at least partially) finished is more important than them being perfect.  The last piece of work was the moulding on the outside of the ends and around the lookouts (0.5mm x 0.3mm styrene strip) and the steps (trimmed L-girder).  

 

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Lacathedrale

[Nick C]

They certainly look the part!