Opposite Direction Signals on the Same Post - Ladder Position

[Ray H]

A while ago I saw a picture of opposite direction signals on the same post with the signal for one direction higher up the post than the other signal (arm). I can't find that picture now 😐

 

Was the ladder up to the lamp for the higher signal arm accepted despite obviously being in front of the lower signal - I recognise that anyone up the ladder might have all but blocked a clear view of the lower signal arm.

 

Was there a ladder up both sides of the post to allow separate access to each lamp?

[bécasse]

I think that you will have to state the company, and possibly the period, involved to get a definitive answer.

[Ray H]

Thanks.

 

It is a ficticious Light Railway presumed to be not too far away from the LNWR in the Home Counties. I'm using MSE KM4 & KM6 signal kits

 

The two signals, one was to be an upper quadrant, the other lower quadrant, don't have to be on the same post. However, two on the same post isn't something I can recall seeing modelled so I thought I'd do it.

 

I'll definitely have a ladder for the top lamp as its ommission would be a bit obvious. I can add one for the lower lamp but wondered if that would have been prototypical given that the taller ladder could partly obscure the lower lamp.

 

It's a 16ft wooden post with the home and starter on the same post which I understand is the minimum requirement for signals on a Light Railway.

 

There does seem to be a noticeable difference between the two signals with everything lower quadrant related being noticeably larger to the extent that I'm beginning to wonder whether the two would be found together or whether a pair on the same post would be more similar.

 

Forgot to add the time period is late 1950s/earlh 1960s.

Edited July 6, 2022 by Ray H
Added time line

[Wickham Green too]

it's unlikely that one arm would have been changed from LQ to UQ and not the other ...................... but, of course, Light Railways were notorious believers in 'Rule 1' !

[bécasse]

22 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

it's unlikely that one arm would have been changed from LQ to UQ and not the other ...................... but, of course, Light Railways were notorious believers in 'Rule 1' !

Surprisingly, there were examples in the West Country where former multiple-armed LSWR LQ signals had one arm renewed UQ during the early BR era while the other remained LQ, although I have yet to see an UQ/LQ pairing of working stop and distant arms.

[phil_sutters]

The signal on the Highbridge to Burnham line, beside Highbridge Wharf had in a photo dated 1933, signals in both directions on one post. In the 1933 photo it is too far away to see the ladder. In a later shot the arm in the westerly direction had been removed and the distant looks to be fixed, but the ladder and platform arrangement can be seen. I don't know where I got the later photo from, but I have seen it in several places in publications and on line. The 1933 shot was taken from a book of local photos collated by Geoffrey Maslen.

Edited July 6, 2022 by phil_sutters

[Nearholmer]

Tenterden Town, K&ESLRy.

 

Water tower by Hornby 0 Gauge.

 

[Ray H]

Thanks.

 

That's the kind of thing I had in mind.

 

I think the picture(s) I've found have all been on relatively short posts as well.

 

It's interesting to note that the balance arms appear to be at 90° to the track, much like the MSE KM6 LNWR signals.

 

The arms are at reasonably similar heights, perhaps avoiding the need for a second ladder.

[KingEdwardII]

2 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Tenterden Town

On that Tenterden picture, the arm facing away from us appears not to have a lamp.  How is that supposed to work??

 

Meanwhile, anyone trying to fettle the lamp for the lower of the arms facing us is going to be worried in case that middle arm gets pulled off while they're up there working on it...

 

I know the Victorians were not much into H&S, but this does not look well planned...

 

Yours,  Mike.

[Nearholmer]

Earlier photos do show a lamp for the starter arm. On the second point, I would have thought the most likely person to be doing the fettling would be the person most likely to be pulling the signal lever, so unless he could be in two places at once ……

 

Looking at modern photos, I think the signal may have been removed and replaced with more conventionally situated ones, which is sad. IIRC it was still there, in use. in the 1970s.

Edited July 6, 2022 by Nearholmer

[The Stationmaster]

17 hours ago, KingEdwardII said:

On that Tenterden picture, the arm facing away from us appears not to have a lamp.  How is that supposed to work??

 

Meanwhile, anyone trying to fettle the lamp for the lower of the arms facing us is going to be worried in case that middle arm gets pulled off while they're up there working on it...

 

I know the Victorians were not much into H&S, but this does not look well planned...

 

Yours,  Mike.

Why does someone up a signal structure need to 'fettle a lamp'?  All he does/did was take the lamp out and take it to the lamp room in order to clean, refill, and adjust, it.  Having of course first replaced it with a fresh lamp.  If you are getting any sort of problems with a signal lamp it's a waste of time and rather dangerous to much about doing anything while at the same time you're standing on a ladder which might not have a safety loop and there's a better than even chance of the lamp being blown out the instant you open the case to get at the burner.

 

PS if you wish to borrow the t-shirt you are welcome but ideally you need to be doing it 30 feet above the ground in the dark on a rainy, windy, night when you'd far sooner be sat indoors watching the tv or reading the 'paper;  my sole satisfaction on that occasion, apart from getting some decent lamps in signals, was having the Lampie summarily dismissed the very next  morning.

[bécasse]

Signal posts may look like nice sturdy items of kit but when one is at the top of the ladder, or even standing on the platform of a bracket signal, they certainly don't feel that sturdy, swaying in the wind (even though they don't, much) is a much more accurate description of one's experience.

[The Stationmaster]

5 hours ago, bécasse said:

Signal posts may look like nice sturdy items of kit but when one is at the top of the ladder, or even standing on the platform of a bracket signal, they certainly don't feel that sturdy, swaying in the wind (even though they don't, much) is a much more accurate description of one's experience.

But at least if the ladder has a safety loop instead of eading to ne of those stupid ;ittle landings you sometimes saw you can firmly brace your back end against the safety loop and you are then perfectly insync with any movement of the post or doll so yiu just concentrate on what you are doing and don't look at anything that isn't fixed to that post etc.😇

[Steven B]

On 06/07/2022 at 18:38, KingEdwardII said:

On that Tenterden picture, the arm facing away from us appears not to have a lamp.  How is that supposed to work??

 

Does a signal arm need a lamp if it's not dark? I'd imagine the rules were similar to tail-lamps when they were only needed at night, in fog or falling snow.

 

I can't imagine the lamp would be lit during daylight hours.

 

Steven B.

[KingEdwardII]

1 hour ago, Steven B said:

Does a signal arm need a lamp if it's not dark?

Perhaps not, but the other two signal arms on that same post do have lamps. Did this place really have running only in one direction after dark?

 

Yours, Mike

[Nearholmer]

It didn’t have much running at all after that, because the photo shows the final passenger train. Goods services continued, but whether anyone bothered with signals I don’t know. The remarkable thing is that the signals survived all that, plus a decade of complete disuse, into preservation.

 

TBH, I’m sure they could manage well enough without a lamp anyway. It’s not as if the signal was a mile from the driver’s nose, and he had to know where to pull-up short , clear of the points, if another train was due, and there’s a big pair of level crossing gates too.

Edited July 8, 2022 by Nearholmer