New 08 and 101 with sound

[pauliebanger]

Tim,

 

All ZIMO sound decoders have onboard stay alive capacitors as standard, some capable of running the motor for a few seconds of power distruption, others sufficient to maintain only the sound for a few milleseconds. The MX659N18 fitted to your model is one of the latter types. There is simply no room on the decoder to fit larger capacitors.

 

The fitted decoder is, however, capable of operating an external stay alive capacitor if you wish to connect one.

 

The issue is whether there is any free space available to accomodate the stay alive componets. This is a very small model indeed, and the MX659N18 was especially developed by ZIMO for Bachmann for their 'limited free space' models.

 

The MS580N18 has a significant stay alive on board which can run the motor (at 5V) and sound for around 1 second, usually enough to clear dirt on the track. However, this decoder is 5mm longer than the MX659N18. This may not sound a lot, but it could be sufficient to prevent fitment - you should confirm this before any purchase decision.

 

If you already have a sound fitted Farish 08 and you vae confirmed that the MS decoder will fit, you can simply remove the fitted decoder, replace with the MS580N18, and sell on the MX658N18 (currently in very short supply and highly sought after). Probably will not cost you much overall.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

 

 

[DaveArkley]

45 minutes ago, pauliebanger said:

If you already have a sound fitted Farish 08 and you vae confirmed that the MS decoder will fit, you can simply remove the fitted decoder, replace with the MS580N18, and sell on the MX658N18 (currently in very short supply and highly sought after). Probably will not cost you much overall.

 

Wouldn't that loose the sound files though? How would one transfer them to the new decoder?

 

Cheers

Dave

[pauliebanger]

14 minutes ago, DaveArkley said:

Wouldn't that loose the sound files though? How would one transfer them to the new decoder?

 

Cheers

Dave

 

Dave,

 

Yes it would.

 

Any solution which does not use the factory fitted decoder would present the same problem as it is impossible to transfer a sound project from one decoder to another, even those of the same type.

 

Digitrains have a very similar Class 08 sound project for ZIMO decoders.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

 

[AndrueC]

I exercised several locos today and the class 08 was like a class oh dear. If I'd bought it for shunting I'd be in despair by now. It's an unreliable starter and at low speed not a reliable runner. It's okay once you get it on the mainline but obviously that's not where it's supposed to be. To be fair it might be that this is newly laid track and for sure dirt and muck had a part to play in it but the other locos were fine. On a couple of occasions when it stalled I was able to get it going again just by activating the horn implying that it hadn't stopped due to electrical issues. 

 

Is a small 0-6-0 really supposed to be this pernickety? It's a lovely looking model but a lousy runner.

[bluedepot]

hi everyone

 

can you attach a stay alive to a mx659n18? 

 

if yes would you do this and put stay alive capacitors in the cab? 

 

or do you have to replace mx659n18 with a smaller ms590 which also has the solder tabs for a stay alive?  this is what i read on youchoose website. 

 

i just need to know what components to buy (once i save up) and then i can get someone to fit it all. 

 

cheers

 

 

tim

 

[TomE]

14 minutes ago, bluedepot said:

can you attach a stay alive to a mx659n18? 

No, there are no pads on the chip to connect the stay alive circuitry and the model’s own PCB doesn’t include any either.
 

The only way you can do it is to identify the relevant connections on the NEXT18 socket and attach the wires to those, but that requires some deft work with the soldering iron. It can be done, but I wouldn’t recommend it unless you are confident in your fine soldering abilities! 
 

The MS series chips do have connection pads so if you want the easy route, buy a non sound 08 and fit a separately sourced MS series chip. 
 

Tom. 

[bluedepot]

ok thanks tom for answer and explanation.

 

i think option 2 then! 

 

i'll see if digitrains have ms590 with 08 sound file added and the appropriate stay alive. 

 

i really need to stop spending money through so might not buy it straight away. 

 

also - can an mx659n18 decoder have sound files replaced? or is it locked? 

 

 

cheers

 

 

tim

 

[TomE]

57 minutes ago, bluedepot said:

also - can an mx659n18 decoder have sound files replaced? or is it locked? 

Not something I’ve ever had to have done to be honest, but I’m sure it’s possible. I’d ping someone like YouChoos a line, they may be able to help with a reblow of the chip. 
 

Tom. 

Edited October 16, 2022 by TomE

[woodenhead]

3 minutes ago, TomE said:

Not something I’ve ever had to have done to be honest, but I’m sure it’s possible. I’d ping someone like YouChoos a line, they may be able to help with a reblow of the chip. 
 

Tom. 

Zimo chips can be reblown, I had to do so with one of mine when I realised my Farish class 24 and 25 had different arrangements for PCB and the chosen chip I had would not let me close the body back down on one, but was fine for the other, so I returned it to be reblown for the other class and got the newer sound MS590N18 in it's place.  If you want stay alive, get the latest chips MS590N18, when I got mine from Digitrains they came with pre-soldered wires for the stay alive and had a stay alive capacitor in the package.  You'd need to check when Digitrains expect them back in stock and whether they are still shipping them like this.

[Izzy]

It’s a shame about the lack of pads on the loco’s PCB. This seems to be the downside of  the Next18 socket which I though was all about doing just this kind of thing to ease adding stuff without having to touch the decoder. I see there are two sets of connections on it, one each on the 9 pin runs, ground and +positive. A lot of the connections are doubled actually. Being me I’d be finding and using those whatever it took after forking out for a sound fitted loco.   The MS590N18 certainly seems a better way for those who haven’t.

 

Bob

[Roy L S]

On 15/10/2022 at 15:11, AndrueC said:

I exercised several locos today and the class 08 was like a class oh dear. If I'd bought it for shunting I'd be in despair by now. It's an unreliable starter and at low speed not a reliable runner. It's okay once you get it on the mainline but obviously that's not where it's supposed to be. To be fair it might be that this is newly laid track and for sure dirt and muck had a part to play in it but the other locos were fine. On a couple of occasions when it stalled I was able to get it going again just by activating the horn implying that it hadn't stopped due to electrical issues. 

 

Is a small 0-6-0 really supposed to be this pernickety? It's a lovely looking model but a lousy runner.

I had already put sound into a Farish 08 a while before the re-tooled chassis with sound was announced.  For that I used a Peco wagon chassis as the basis for a shunter-s truck to which I added pickups and weight, this is permanently attached to the 08 and fine wires take power to the pickup terminals in the loco. With ten wheels picking up it can run nice and slowly and stalling is very rare indeed. 

 

I have also purchased a sound fitted green 08 from the latest batch, and after a decent period of running in to remove the chemical blacking from the treads I have found mine to be surprisingly reliable albeit not as good as the one I did myself.

 

Roy

[alan24]

The new 08761 in 'Provincial' livery shows 'BR Scotrail' on the box label.

I'm pretty sure it should be Provincial.

 

There's a good video here at 40 seconds in with it on Tullis Russell wagons.

 

Edited October 22, 2022 by alan24

[TomE]

On 17/10/2022 at 09:06, Roy L S said:

I have found mine to be surprisingly reliable albeit not as good as the one I did myself.

My impulse buy EMT 08 arrived yesterday and runs excellently out of the box around a unitrack loop, although it will benefit further from some stay alive being fitted when I get around to putting a sound chip in it. 

 

I need to dig out my old version to check, but it feels like they’ve slimed down the cranks slightly, making it a fraction narrower? 
 

Lovely livery application though:

Tom.

[John M Upton]

The Provincial/Scotrail one was waiting for me after an afternoon with the in-laws.

Absolutely gorgeous out of the box and a good runner too.

 

Surprisingly it compares well with the forty plus year old Poole version that is currently near to completion of a from the ground up from scrap condition restoration job on:

[John M Upton]

There is something slightly odd/interesting happening with my 08.  I was shunting the station late last night and when I turned the controller power off, it kept moving, all be it slowly (scale pace I reckon)!  Combined with the best performance I have ever seen from a non DCC chip fitted 0-6-0 over dead frog points, I am wondering if there is some sort of stay alive capacity built in?

[Izzy]

8 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

I am wondering if there is some sort of stay alive capacity built in?

Not if it’s plain DC, not possible. What controller are you using? It’s got a coreless motor that will run off very low current levels. Some old type controllers still pass residual current at ‘off’ which is enough for these motors to run on.

Edited December 10, 2022 by Izzy

[AndrueC]

Certainly isn't any stay alive on mine. Most of my stock is still stored away but I really need to sort out the 08 eventually. Interestingly it seems to run just fine on my Gaugemaster wheel cleaner but struggles something awful on the track itself. So it looks like the wheel pickup is just really poor :(

[John M Upton]

4 hours ago, Izzy said:

Not if it’s plain DC, not possible. What controller are you using? It’s got a coreless motor that will run off very low current levels. Some old type controllers still pass residual current at ‘off’ which is enough for these motors to run on.

 

Gaugemaster W controller, had it for years.  Mind you there is also a high frequency track cleaner in the circuit somewhere so that may explain it but I have never had this problem with any other loco except back in the 1980's where the old Hornby train set controllers used to leak power like a sieve and you would notice if you were out of the room for any length of time that the train in the live track had crept forward a couple of scale feet.

[AndrueC]

Well there's a bit of a surprise. I decided that today I'd try and get to the bottom of why my 08 is a poor runner. Weirdly it ran perfectly well out of the box. No starting hesitation or anything.

and some gratuitous sound effects: