LNER Dia. 186 wagon

[EasternO]

I'm thinking of buying some kits of the LNER Dia 186 mineral wagon, but I'm lost on where to find information about them. Could anyone with some knowledge give me some insight please?

[Bucoops]

I think perhaps the best resource would be either the relevant Tatlow book - possibly this one - https://wildswanbooks.co.uk/Books/LNER-Wagons4A.htm

 

or the relevant acquired by British Railways book - perhaps this one - https://strathwood.co.uk/products/the-acquired-wagons-of-british-railways-volume-2-all-steel-mineral-wagons-loco-coal-wagons

 

I'm not familiar with that diagram number so don't know if it's steel or timber bodied.

[Sitham Yard]

43 minutes ago, EasternO said:

I'm thinking of buying some kits of the LNER Dia 186 mineral wagon, but I'm lost on where to find information about them. Could anyone with some knowledge give me some insight please?

There is some confusion here. LNER Dia 186 was an unfitted goods wagon with a steel body but a wooden floor. You need to clarify which kits you are thinking of.

Andrew

[EasternO]

27 minutes ago, Sitham Yard said:

There is some confusion here. LNER Dia 186 was an unfitted goods wagon with a steel body but a wooden floor. You need to clarify which kits you are thinking of.

Andrew

The kit is made by ABS. Your description sounds correct.

[Sitham Yard]

2 hours ago, EasternO said:

The kit is made by ABS. Your description sounds correct.

In that case the first reference quoted by @Bucoops is correct , page 52. Note that there were only 100 built and many were converted to Soda Ash wagons and most (all?) of both types had fitted brakes added by BR. @hmrspaulPaul Bartlett has a few photos on his website.

Andrew 

[Bucoops]

I got something right?

 

Dang.

[Bernard Lamb]

11 hours ago, EasternO said:

The kit is made by ABS. Your description sounds correct.

Was not is.

Sadly Adrian is no longer with us.

He did produce some very nice kits.

Bernard

[EasternO]

The kit is available on DJ Parkin's website. I was thinking of buying 3 or 4 but if they were that rare in circulation I probably won't.

[hmrspaul]

On 25/08/2022 at 10:12, EasternO said:

The kit is available on DJ Parkin's website. I was thinking of buying 3 or 4 but if they were that rare in circulation I probably won't.

Don't be so hasty. These are a standard open merchandise wagon introduced in 1944 and common into the 1980s (used by the engineers usually for spoil)

 

Tatlow doesn't clarify the diagram differences at all well in 4A. 186 are unfit, but most were built with the LNER clasp brake with the exception of 190 which had the wood doors and was the subject of ABS kit 0494 

 

The early ones can have dimples, or be plain, steel doored or wooden doored and he comments on the Soda Ash conversion in the text but not in the table, where the same comment is applied to another diagram. These were BR conversions and many BR built wagons were similarly converted. They also came with Morton unfit brake or the typical LNER clasp Vac brake.

They are complex and you haven't mentioned what period you are interested in. BR from 1958 converted many to a simpler version of VB - and that is what many of my much later photos show https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lneropenmerchandisesteel

 

What I would do is buy some of https://www.djparkins.com/product.php?productid=18927&cat=363&page=1 which appears to have the Morton brake with steel door (and I assume dimples in the side - that is the cruncher, but the diag 186 shows dimples) I think it is some of the later diag which were built without dimples https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lneropenmerchandisesteel/e2b76160f it seems almost random or based on whom manufactured the bodies for the LNER. 

 

OK and then add VB using LNER Standard Clasp Brake Shoe Units - Final Pattern [4 units]     https://www.djparkins.com/product.php?productid=19082&cat=379&page=1

 

IF you are interested in BR then they went on building unfitted versions Lots 2341and lot 2366 but their doors have some additional strapping. If Parkin had any of ABS BR ones they only have the Soda Ash ones left. https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/bropenmerchandisesteel

 

Some of these kits are remarkably cheap for ABS - £20 ! And some of the wooden open merchandise are still available - but the steel opens are very LNER design, so rather nice. 

 

Paul

[EasternO]

Thank you Paul that is very helpful.

[41516]

On 05/09/2022 at 11:46, hmrspaul said:

(and I assume dimples in the side - that is the cruncher, but the diag 186 shows dimples)

 

All of the ABS steel door kits do not have the dimples on the main body as moulded, you need to drill out a hole, countersink the inside and then fit the separately supplied dimple to the outside.   Not a huge problem to overcome if you can create your own dimples. There are light marks inside for where the holes need to be drilled.

 

 

 

On 05/09/2022 at 11:46, hmrspaul said:

OK and then add VB using LNER Standard Clasp Brake Shoe Units

 

I think you'd still be missing the LNER brake linkages between the V hangers and the brake levers would need shortening. Again, not the hardest thing to fabricate if needed.

 

[hmrspaul]

4 hours ago, 41516 said:

 

All of the ABS steel door kits do not have the dimples on the main body as moulded, you need to drill out a hole, countersink the inside and then fit the separately supplied dimple to the outside.   Not a huge problem to overcome if you can create your own dimples. There are light marks inside for where the holes need to be drilled.

 

 

 

 

I think you'd still be missing the LNER brake linkages between the V hangers and the brake levers would need shortening. Again, not the hardest thing to fabricate if needed.

 

Does the kit come with the LNER VB? - it has the V hangers for both fit and unfit in place. Why would the brake lever need shortening if the LNER VB component kit is used?

 

Shouldn't overlook that Slaters do a kit with the dimples, but it is a later BR version with extra strapping on the door - https://slatersplastikard.com/linePage.php?suffix=JPG&code=7071  Not a dissimilar price when wheels and decent couplings are added to the ABS kit, and available from discounters. 

 

Paul

[41516]

11 minutes ago, hmrspaul said:

Does the kit come with the LNER VB?

 

Not the D186 kit in question (ABS kit 0.450), 2 shoe morton brake only, no dimples with the kit from the box.  The BR 1/037 &1/041 kit (0.054 - out of stock) does come with LNER VBs, can't say what the Soda Ash version comes with.  

 

EDIT - Instructions (common to all the kits) suggest the Soda Ash versions are 4 shoe morton.

 

 

 

Edited September 6, 2022 by 41516

[hmrspaul]

Thanks. Yes, I looked at my built kits - the ABS I have has dimples and LNER VB. [Is DJP quoting ABS catalogue numbers?) 

 

The Slaters box illustration appears to be misleading, the one I have, which I have made as an unfit BR version has the plain door as the LNER and early BR, and not the extra strapping on the door as shown on the box illustrations which would suggest it was a 1/041 and not the 1/047 illustrated. I think the Slaters kit is suitable for a LNER version, but needs the VB. 

 

[Not the only time Slaters illustrations are simply wrong - the steel Lowfit is shown with RCH 4 shoe brake, whereas the kit is, annoyingly, for the post 1958 BR clasp brake.]

 

Incidentally my table 4 HIGHS in our book appears correct. It was only later than publication that I had a copy of the lists of wagons to be converted to VB after 1958 and those that I list as unfit are correct as they are in this official listing. 

 

Paul