Locomotives that ran between Bedford and London during the 1960s and 1970s.

[Lego Jaeson]

Im looking for information about the locomotives that ran between Bedford and London during the 60s and 70s. Any information would be appreciated. Thank you.

[spamcan61]

Class 45s, lots of them.

[Lego Jaeson]

59 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

Class 45s, lots of them.

Thank you. 

[Fat Controller]

Also Brush Type 4s, BR Type 2 (Class 25), BRC&W TYPE 2 ( Class 27) and EE Type 1 ( Class 20).

[Lego Jaeson]

6 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

Also Brush Type 4s, BR Type 2 (Class 25), BRC&W TYPE 2 ( Class 27) and EE Type 1 ( Class 20).

Thank you. Would any of these be painted in a maroon livery?

Edited August 28, 2022 by Lego Jaeson

[MyRule1]

In that era Maroon was never a tsandard livery for anything else than the WR Hydrolics. So green and blue are the only options.

[Fat Controller]

3 minutes ago, Lego Jaeson said:

Thank you. Would any of these be painted in a maroon livery?

No, I'm sorry. Maroon 'Westerns' may have worked through on stone or car trains. This link might be of interest:- 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/midlandrailway

[Lego Jaeson]

2 minutes ago, MyRule1 said:

In that era Maroon was never a tsandard livery for anything else than the WR Hydrolics. So green and blue are the only options.

Ok thank you. 

[Lego Jaeson]

3 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

No, I'm sorry. Maroon 'Westerns' may have worked through on stone or car trains. This link might be of interest:- 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/midlandrailway

Many thanks for this much appreciated. 

[RANGERS]

12 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

No, I'm sorry. Maroon 'Westerns' may have worked through on stone or car trains. This link might be of interest:- 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/midlandrailway

Westerns we’re regular visitors on stone trains from the West Country via the Oxford - Bedford route and reversing at Bedford to reach the stone terminal at Leagrave.

Occasionally they’d return south via Brent and Acton but I didn’t  think there were any photos around of them South of Leagrave, though one shot here suggests the empties travelled as far as Luton to run round.

 

 

Edited August 28, 2022 by RANGERS

[chris p bacon]

You could have something different for Bedford.

 

This is 1977 (IIRC) and the 45 is taking stock from the old Clapham museum to York to the new NRM. Bedford (Midland) is run down by then and in a pretty dire state. It's a Saturday and the schoolboys in the foreground are from the Harper Trust schools which had lessons on a Saturday morning, the station buffet selling the obligatory Lyons fruit pies is just under the awning.

The 'New' Bedford station is under construction on the site of some DMU sidings just North of Midland.

 

[EddieB]

I’m puzzled as to the identity of the steam loco behind the “Peak”.  It looks LNER (J39?) - not something I remember from Clapham.  Was this a move from another site or store (Preston Park?) to the NRM?

[Lego Jaeson]

Many thanks for these pictures and information Very helpful. 

[Flying Pig]

15 minutes ago, EddieB said:

I’m puzzled as to the identity of the steam loco behind the “Peak”.  It looks LNER (J39?) - not something I remember from Clapham.  Was this a move from another site or store (Preston Park?) to the NRM?

 

Looks like the Q7 which the NELPG record as having been moved to York in 1978.

 

[EddieB]

2 hours ago, Flying Pig said:

 

Looks like the Q7 which the NELPG record as having been moved to York in 1978.

 

Thanks - that would fit better with my suggestion that the move was from Preston Park rather than Clapham.

[Compound2632]

You've said 60s and 70s; no-one has yet mentioned Jubilees, Black 5s, 8Fs, 4Fs, 3Fs, and numerous other classes - last dates anyone?

 

You've said locomotives but one shouldn't overlook the important role of DMus on the BedPan services - Class 127 chiefly.

[spamcan61]

2 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

You've said locomotives but one shouldn't overlook the important role of DMus on the BedPan services - Class 127 chiefly.

Oh yes, back in 1980 I used to live near Leagrave railway station and commuted to college in Bedford on the 127s. They were looking a bit shabby by then. I used to board at Leagrave and endeavour to complete the week's homework before disembarking at Bedford. Nothing like a bit of time pressure to get the brain working at full steam. I don't doubt the accuracy of other contributions to this thread but all I recall seeing traction wise were the 45s and more 45s!

[petethemole]

22 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

You've said 60s and 70s; no-one has yet mentioned Jubilees, Black 5s, 8Fs, 4Fs, 3Fs, and numerous other classes - last dates anyone?

 

Also Patriots (original and rebuilt) up to 1962, Royal Scots, plus 9Fs  on the coal to Brent and down empties.  BR Standard class 5s and Brtiannias appeared occasionally.  The LMS 2-6-2 and 2-6-4 tanks still ran for a while south of Luton or St. Albans after the dieselisation of the Bedford services in 1959.  The original Peaks, class 44, operated from St. Pancras on passenger duties until sufficient 45s were available, and also on the Toton-Brent coal.

[Rivercider]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

You've said 60s and 70s; no-one has yet mentioned Jubilees, Black 5s, 8Fs, 4Fs, 3Fs, and numerous other classes - last dates anyone?

 

You've said locomotives but one shouldn't overlook the important role of DMus on the BedPan services - Class 127 chiefly.

I made a trip to Bedford on an Sunday, and took a couple of instamatic snaps of the class 127 DMUs stabled for the weekend.

.

51642, 51621, 5????, 51650, 7/10/79

51598, 51623, 7/10/79

 

cheers

[Jeremy Cumberland]

4 hours ago, spamcan61 said:

Oh yes, back in 1980 I used to live near Leagrave railway station and commuted to college in Bedford on the 127s. They were looking a bit shabby by then. I used to board at Leagrave and endeavour to complete the week's homework before disembarking at Bedford. Nothing like a bit of time pressure to get the brain working at full steam. I don't doubt the accuracy of other contributions to this thread but all I recall seeing traction wise were the 45s and more 45s!

I recall 25s being common enough on non-passenger duties, but I agree that in the few years around 1980 when I used to travel from St Albans quite a bit, passenger trains to Luton and Bedford were all 127s, and anything going beyond Bedford had a 45 on the front.

 

Disused Stations suggests that Midland trains to Moorgate were withdrawn "circa 1979", which sounds rather late to me. I have no idea what worked them after the 112s were scrapped (before my time), since 127s weren't allowed to Moorgate. Nor can I remember how far north they worked, which makes me suspect they had ceased running before about 1977.

[Clive Mortimore]

11 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

Also Brush Type 4s, BR Type 2 (Class 25), BRC&W TYPE 2 ( Class 27) and EE Type 1 ( Class 20).

Hi Brian

 

As a Bedfordian I am going to elaborate on your post.

 

The first time I saw a Type 1 in Bedford was on a Railfeight day when all sorts of freight locos were hauling passenger trains, and that was in the early 90s.

 

Westerns at Bedford, the stone trains in the early 70s, before that they got as far as St Johns yard where a Bo-Bo would take over. The news would reach us platform enders a Western was at St Johns, so we rush to St Johns only for it not to be a cop.

 

Brushes (Class 46) were fairly common in the late 60s early 70s both Toton and Holbeck allocated locos. True Peaks (class 44) very rarely ventured south of Wellingborough. I personally never saw one at Bedford but when one did there were always enough spotters to witness it as to be believed.

 

The only regular passenger train with a Brush 4 on the front was the Master Cutler, nearly always D1575.  The Tartan Arrow would usually give us a Brush 4  cop.

 

7 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

You've said 60s and 70s; no-one has yet mentioned Jubilees, Black 5s, 8Fs, 4Fs, 3Fs, and numerous other classes - last dates anyone?

 

You've said locomotives but one shouldn't overlook the important role of DMus on the BedPan services - Class 127 chiefly.

Hi Stephen

 

The last BR steam loco I can recall was a 8F (I think) delivering coal to Goldington Power Station, I was at primary school so possibly 63 at the latest. 

One of my earliest railway memories is of traveling to Northampton on what must have been a push -pull service with a class 2 2-6-2T. A few weeks before my family had visited Southampton and I was taken to see the ships...very disappointed that there were no ships in Northampton. I was under school age at the time.

 

DMUs, Derby 2 car (class108) before the Hitchin and Northampton lines closed, Cravens Rolls Royce engine powered twins, both class 112 and 113 on Moorgate services, replaced by ex WR Derby 3 units (running as four cars with three driving motors), and for a very short time some Marylebone Dreby 4 car units (class 115). I did see a few WR Swindon Cross Country units running on specials passing on the fast lines. Plus hordes of class 127s. I never heard the term Bed-Pan until the class 318s came into service. There was a Leicester or Kettering train to Bedford formed of a Cravens 3 car unit, I cannot recall seeing it but a working time table I have says it ran. 

 

Route map showing where class 127s were first going to operate, I remember these inside them. I also remember going to Southend Central on one, down the Midland, turn left at Carlton Rd Junc, over the Tottenham and Hampstead, then the LTS to Southend. Over half the day taken up on a train with a loo only in one coach, and no gangways between the coaches.

 

Suppose the Midland Pullman was counted as a DMU.  Bedford was also the original home for the Park Royal railbuses, replaced by the push pull trains (they took over) and the class 108s.

 

Don't forget the local Jocko's D3580 "Steve" and D4135 "Ted", their names were chalked on the engine room doors and lasted a few years before wearing off.

 

My brother Steve writing the number down of a class 116 DMS.

 

 

 

 

[Clive Mortimore]

Forgot to add, BRCW type 3s would work to Luton, after the GNR branch was closed, on chalk trains to and from Dunstable. I wish I had a camera with me on a trip to London, there was a BRCW Type 3 and a Type 2 at Luton.

 

Cricklewood/ Brent sidings would see SR Electro-diesels (class 73) and BRCW type 3s. I did see a Western at Brent once but how often they worked trains to the Midland lines I wouldn't know. I cannot remember seeing any ER locos on cross  London workings, I am sure they did.

 

BR Type 2s (class 24) were used on Moorgate trains for a while, I have a photo in a book of one at Bedford but cannot recall seeing them.

[Poor Old Bruce]

Nobody seems to have mentioned the Metrovic Co-Bos yet on the Condor.

[Compound2632]

8 minutes ago, Poor Old Bruce said:

Nobody seems to have mentioned the Metrovic Co-Bos yet on the Condor.

 

Only just in by the skin of their teeth (likes some steam classes), being replaced by Derby Sulzers in 1961?

[EddieK]

On 28/08/2022 at 20:20, Jeremy Cumberland said:

Disused Stations suggests that Midland trains to Moorgate were withdrawn "circa 1979", which sounds rather late to me. I have no idea what worked them after the 112s were scrapped (before my time), since 127s weren't allowed to Moorgate. Nor can I remember how far north they worked, which makes me suspect they had ceased running before about 1977.

According to the railcar website, some Class 116 suburban DMUs moved  from Tyseley to Cricklewood Depot in July 1968. It was around this time that the restriction on the use of long underframe DMUs on the lines to Moorgate was lifted; these lines had been served by the (short frame) Rolls Royce Cravens units until this time. 

 

More Class 116 vehicles arrived from Cardiff, Laira and from Tyseley in various batches until February 1970. In parallel, the last of the RR Cravens were withdrawn November 1969. These units settled in on services between Kentish Town and Barking and also the Moorgate services out to places like St Albans and Luton. I believe that the Class 116s had tripcock equipment fitted (?) as presumably there were stretches of line signalled by the LT system.

 

Class 116 vehicles started to migrate from Cricklewood to Tyseley in Summer 1979, and continued to  do so  in dribs and drabs until Summer/Autumn 1983. 

 

A look at the Disused Stations website  found a reference to the track on the widened lines being lifted during 1978,  so that must be around the time that the services ceased.