GNR A1 Pacifics. How many were there before the grouping?

[Captain_Mumbles]

How many GNR A1s were there before the merger and were their numbers/names?

I'm inspired to make one appear as a cameo on my layout.

 

Sorry if it has been covered before. I can't find this info for the life of me. Images of 1470 about the only ones I can find. I think I have seen an unnamed 1471 as well.

 

Cheers!

Ben 

 

[pH]

Only 2 A1s placed in service by the GNR - 1470 ‘Great Northern’ and 1471 ‘Sir Frederick Banbury’ in April 1922 and July 1922 respectively. Next was 1472 ‘Flying Scotsman’ under the LNER in February 1923.

 

Information from “Locomotives Illustrated 25 - Gresley A1/A3 Pacifics” and “British Pacific Locomotives” by Cecil J Allen.

 

And online, for example, here:

https://www.lner.info/locos/A/a1a3a10.php

 

and here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNER_Gresley_Classes_A1_and_A3

Edited October 9, 2022 by pH
To add sources.

[Captain_Mumbles]

I miss-read the lner.info example and thought there might have been 11 of them but could never find any other reference. Thank you for your time.

[Compound2632]

12 hours ago, pH said:

And online, for example, here:

https://www.lner.info/locos/A/a1a3a10.php

 

and here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNER_Gresley_Classes_A1_and_A3

 

From those, I gather that the third member of the class was initially numbered No. 1472 in the Great Northern number series. Presumably the decision to renumber ex-Great Northern engines (by the addition of 3000) had not yet been reached in February 1923. I also glean that the engine was not named (or renumbered) until it was prepared for the British Empire Exhibition in 1924. 

 

My understanding is that 1470 and 1471 were not named - indeed as far as I am aware names were never used by the Great Northern - the names Great Northern and Sir Frederick Banbury being applied as later class members were named - are naming dates known?

[Guest Simon A.C. Martin]

27 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

From those, I gather that the third member of the class was initially numbered No. 1472 in the Great Northern number series. Presumably the decision to renumber ex-Great Northern engines (by the addition of 3000) had not yet been reached in February 1923. I also glean that the engine was not named (or renumbered) until it was prepared for the British Empire Exhibition in 1924. 

 

My understanding is that 1470 and 1471 were not named - indeed as far as I am aware names were never used by the Great Northern - the names Great Northern and Sir Frederick Banbury being applied as later class members were named - are naming dates known?

 

1470 was named from new for the express purpose of the commemoration of the Great Northern Railway ahead of the grouping. 1471 was named later at grouping.

 

https://railway-photography.smugmug.com/LNERSteam/Gresley-Locomotives/Gresley-A1A3/4470-4471-60102-Built-GMR-1922/4470-4479-Gresley-A1-The-1st-10-locos/i-QBFsC9b

[Steamport Southport]

29 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

From those, I gather that the third member of the class was initially numbered No. 1472 in the Great Northern number series. Presumably the decision to renumber ex-Great Northern engines (by the addition of 3000) had not yet been reached in February 1923. I also glean that the engine was not named (or renumbered) until it was prepared for the British Empire Exhibition in 1924. 

 

My understanding is that 1470 and 1471 were not named - indeed as far as I am aware names were never used by the Great Northern - the names Great Northern and Sir Frederick Banbury being applied as later class members were named - are naming dates known?

 

They ran for the first few years with an N suffix before gaining the 3000.

 

Definitely named pre LNER.

 

1470 named 11/4/1922

1471 named 10/11/1922

 

Also don't forget Henry Oakley was named.

 

 

 

Jason

[pH]

47 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

My understanding is that 1470 and 1471 were not named - indeed as far as I am aware names were never used by the Great Northern - the names Great Northern and Sir Frederick Banbury being applied as later class members were named - are naming dates known?

 

16 minutes ago, Simon A.C. Martin said:

1470 was named from new for the express purpose of the commemoration of the Great Northern Railway ahead of the grouping. 1471 was named later at grouping.

 

13 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

Definitely named pre LNER.

 

1470 named 11/4/1922

1471 named 10/11/1922

Jason, where did you get those dates from? They are the same as those on the ‘BR database’ site, but that’s not a ‘primary’ source; it aggregates data from other sources. I was wondering if you had got them from somewhere else.

 

There are pictures in ‘Locomotives Illustrated 25’ that I referred to above that support those dates. 1470 is shown at Wood Green “in the summer of 1922” and 1471 at Doncaster “in the winter of 1922”, both clearly showing nameplates on the engines.

Edited October 9, 2022 by pH

[Compound2632]

13 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

Also don't forget Henry Oakley was named.

 

Of course.

 

I am now better informed!

[Steamport Southport]

2 minutes ago, pH said:

 

 

Jason, where did you get those dates from? They are the same as those on the ‘BR database’ site, but that’s not a ‘primary’ source; it aggregates data from other sources. I was wondering if you had got them from somewhere else.

 

There are pictures in ‘Locomotives Illustrated 25’ that I referred to above that support those dates. 1470 is shown at Wood Green “in the summer of 1922” and 1471 at Doncaster “in the winter of 1922”, both clearly showing nameplates on the engines.

 

Same in the RCTS book on LNER Pacifics which is where I expect BR Database got the details from.

 

Part 2A LNER Locomotives A1 to A10

 

I would expect that to be right.

 

 

Jason

[Captain_Mumbles]

On 10/10/2022 at 03:30, Simon A.C. Martin said:

 

1470 was named from new for the express purpose of the commemoration of the Great Northern Railway ahead of the grouping. 1471 was named later at grouping.

 

https://railway-photography.smugmug.com/LNERSteam/Gresley-Locomotives/Gresley-A1A3/4470-4471-60102-Built-GMR-1922/4470-4479-Gresley-A1-The-1st-10-locos/i-QBFsC9b

Weren't they just beautiful