1983/4 Cricklewood to Tyne Yard freight

[lather]

Looking through one of my old working timetables, I've come across a service that I'm trying to figure out the formation of. The 1983 to 1984 Section CW freight WTT shows the 0410 WFO 6E25 from Cricklewood to Tyne Yard as a block or concentrated load. Not having the appropriate loads book, I can't look it up there, and I also can't find anything online - apart from it sometimes being worked by a Class 40.

 

Is there anyone out there who can enlighten me as to what this service was? My best guess at the moment is that it could be HEAs from the London-area coal concentration depots to the Tyneside pits. However, it doesn't have the "ABS" tag that you'd expect if it was just those wagons, which implies that it could possibly include vacuum stock.

 

TIA for any help here.

[iands]

Just had a quick look in one of my WTT related documents (Eastern Region Freight Train Services Sep 1985 - May 1986) and although slightly later than your enquiry it does show an 04:10 departure WFO Cricklewood - Tyne Yard although the head code is shown as 8E25. The Commodity Manager code shown is 02L, the '02' relating to 'Trainload Coal - York' and the 'L' indicating 'Loaded'. Coals to Newcastle!!??

 

I'll keep looking to see if I can find anything else.

[keefer]

Would presumably be coal of a particular type that wasn't mined in the NE?

i.e. for a particular industry or for blending etc.

[nigb55009]

The change from a class 6 to a class 8 headcode would be as a direct result of the reclassification of freight trains. Class 6 was a fully fitted freight train. Classes 7 & 8 were

partially fitted, class 9 totally unfitted. Around the mid 80s classes 7 & 8 were reclassified as fully fitted, but with differing speeds. Class 6 remained 60 mph, class 7 for trains

timed to run at 45mph and class 8 35mph. MGR trains which had previously been class 6 whether loaded or empty became class 7 when loaded but remained class 6 when

empty. The maximum speed of loaded HAAs was 45mph, but empty 55mph. Later HDAs were permitted to run at 60mph, loaded or empty, provided the train was only made

up of HDAs. Class 9 trains could run partially or fully fitted, but not exceed 35mph.

[SED Freightman]

6E25 was the forward working for traffic off 6M18 1142 (SX) Betteshanger Colliery to Cricklewood Recess Sdgs. The booked load for 6M18 was 23 loaded HTV's, conveying coking coal for National Smokeless Fuels at Derwenthaugh or Monkton Bowes. Literally coals to Newcastle as iands suggested. The trains ex Betteshanger were combined at Cricklewood into longer  rakes (46 ?), with the wagons presumably being tripped from Tyne Yd to whichever coking plant  required them.

[drjcontroller]

I'm so glad I came across this thread. It rang a bell so I went into my photo collection and came across this picture taken at Sunderland Bridge, between Durham and Ferryhill. It shows 20184+20043 heading north with 6E25 on 1/10/85. Unfortunately the shadows do hide most of the wagon detail but they look like HTVs?

Hope it's of interest.

 

[Fat Controller]

Am I correct to think that, in air-braked days (if not before), this train ran loaded southwards with coal for the cement works at Northfleet, continuing empty to Betteshanger, where it collected coking coal for the NE?

[SED Freightman]

Generally MGR wagons from Ridham Sdgs were sent empty to Betteshanger, in latter times they tended to work Oxcroft - Ridham - Betteshanger - Scunthorpe - Oxcroft, a very profitable circuit. Use of empty Northfleet MGR's were avoided where possible as they tended to be fitted with canopies. Without delving into my files I think we did receive blocks of empty HTV's from Tyne Yd to Hither Green Yd after the local supply of empties from CCD's had dried up with the switch to HEA's.  I cannot remember the Kent Pits loading any HEA's.

[iands]

20 hours ago, iands said:

Just had a quick look in one of my WTT related documents (Eastern Region Freight Train Services Sep 1985 - May 1986) and although slightly later than your enquiry it does show an 04:10 departure WFO Cricklewood - Tyne Yard although the head code is shown as 8E25. The Commodity Manager code shown is 02L, the '02' relating to 'Trainload Coal - York' and the 'L' indicating 'Loaded'. Coals to Newcastle!!??

 

I'll keep looking to see if I can find anything else.

Had a look for any return workings. From the same document: 6O55 WO (15:53) Tyne Yard to Betteshanger Colliery, and 6O55 FO (15:33) Tyne Yard to Hither Green. Both Commodity codes shown as '02E' (E for Empty). I've been unable to identify any 'coal' service to Northfleet (from the ER) in the document I have, so maybe the coal for Northfleet cement works originated elsewhere.

[lather]

23 hours ago, SED Freightman said:

6E25 was the forward working for traffic off 6M18 1142 (SX) Betteshanger Colliery to Cricklewood Recess Sdgs. The booked load for 6M18 was 23 loaded HTV's, conveying coking coal for National Smokeless Fuels at Derwenthaugh or Monkton Bowes. Literally coals to Newcastle as iands suggested. The trains ex Betteshanger were combined at Cricklewood into longer  rakes (46 ?), with the wagons presumably being tripped from Tyne Yd to whichever coking plant  required them.

Thanks for the detailed reply - I knew someone here would probably know.

[SED Freightman]

6 hours ago, iands said:

Had a look for any return workings. From the same document: 6O55 WO (15:53) Tyne Yard to Betteshanger Colliery, and 6O55 FO (15:33) Tyne Yard to Hither Green. Both Commodity codes shown as '02E' (E for Empty). I've been unable to identify any 'coal' service to Northfleet (from the ER) in the document I have, so maybe the coal for Northfleet cement works originated elsewhere.

By 1985/6 the supply of VB wagons from CCD's  would have ceased and the wagons would have been effectively in circuit working between National Smokeless Fuels and their suppliers. Whilst there may have been a timetabled service from Tyne Yd to Betteshanger it is unlikely to have run beyond Hither Green Yd as the daily requirement for VB wagons was fed from there. The daily class 73 hauled service thence was formed of 27 HTV's or 30 MCV's, an impressive train when at times formed of 27 HTV + 30 MCV.

 

Northfleet BCI received coal from Butterwell Open Cast for a while, but latterly was served by up to three trains per day from Toton. Worked by LMR resources throughout, these coveyed traffic from Thoresby, Silverhill, etc. which worked to Toton on separate services.

 

[Mark Saunders]

Was there still not coking coal coming from Kent to Lambton till about 1984 when NSF stopped using rail!

 

Till the pit strike Butterwell was sending two trains of 20 HTV to Tyne Yard to be combined into one for the Metropolitan Water Board at Brentford.

Edited October 14, 2022 by Mark Saunders
additional comment!

[SED Freightman]

15 hours ago, Mark Saunders said:

Was there still not coking coal coming from Kent to Lambton till about 1984 when NSF stopped using rail!

 

Till the pit strike Butterwell was sending two trains of 20 HTV to Tyne Yard to be combined into one for the Metropolitan Water Board at Brentford.

The SR WTT (section WK) commencing 13/05/1985  included the following services :-

 

8O55 1230 Y (MTThO) Tinsley Yd to Betteshanger

8O55 1234 Y (MTThO) Treeton Exch Sdgs to Betteshanger

8O55 1540 (WO) Tyne Yd to Betteshanger

8O55 1540 (FO) Tyne Yd to Hither Green - fwd to Betteshanger 0545 (MO)

 

6M18 1150 (SX) Betteshanger to Cricklewood Recess Sdgs

8E25 1440 (MWO) Betteshanger to Treeton Exch Sdgs

8M25 1440 (TThO) Betteshanger to Cricklewood Recess Sdgs

8M25 1440 (FO) Betteshanger to Toton Down Sdgs LL

 

The above suggests that we were still despatching HTV's to NSF in the Tyne area and MCV's to Orgreave in block loads in mid 1985.

[RANGERS]

22 hours ago, SED Freightman said:

By 1985/6 the supply of VB wagons from CCD's  would have ceased and the wagons would have been effectively in circuit working between National Smokeless Fuels and their suppliers. Whilst there may have been a timetabled service from Tyne Yd to Betteshanger it is unlikely to have run beyond Hither Green Yd as the daily requirement for VB wagons was fed from there. The daily class 73 hauled service thence was formed of 27 HTV's or 30 MCV's, an impressive train when at times formed of 27 HTV + 30 MCV.

 

Northfleet BCI received coal from Butterwell Open Cast for a while, but latterly was served by up to three trains per day from Toton. Worked by LMR resources throughout, these coveyed traffic from Thoresby, Silverhill, etc. which worked to Toton on separate services.

 

Not sure when it ended but Northfleet had two MGR trains a day from Welbeck Colliery, southbound they worked via Manton and the northbound empties generally worked via Market Harborough.

[nigb55009]

There are two articles on Kent coal trains in issues 253 and 254 of Traction magazine. They cover the workings from

the north to the Southern Region, as well as returning traffic, both loaded and empty, back north. Traffic for the

paper manufacturing industry is also covered.