Mk1 BG differences

[diyceejay]

Is there somebody who can explain the visual differences between BG vehicles for me?

I'm aware of NEA and NDV having different braking and different running speeds but wonder if this would be detectable on a model apart from the number on a 1980s layout?

Books and websites aren't too specific on BG's...

Edited October 15, 2022 by diyceejay
Typo

[Wickham Green too]

Little or no difference from 'normal viewing angle'.

[Simon Bendall]

1 hour ago, diyceejay said:

I'm aware of NEA and NDV having different braking and different running speeds but wonder if this would be detectable on a model apart from the number on a 1980s layout?

 

A NEA would be on B4 or Commonwealth bogies, a NDV on BR1. The brake equipment would also be different on the underframe.

[keefer]

NCV Newspapers vans had the guard's door and (sometimes) one set of double doors sealed up (on both sides).

They were painted plain blue to signify the guard's office had been removed.

Removal of the guard's office involved removing the handbrake, hence NCV gained an external wheel handbrake on the solebar. (with dynamo bogie on LH end, handwheel is on RH end)

IIRC they would be on BR1 or BR2 bogies.

Note this one has all of its double doors. The dynamo bogie is at RH end - hence brake wheel is on the other side of the coach

By 53a Models on Flickr

 

Another on Paul Bartlett's site shows the sealed doors and the handbrake wheel:

https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brnpccs/e1186318e

 

EDIT: to provide photo/link and more info

Edited October 16, 2022 by keefer

[bécasse]

When they were originally built some were crimson & cream and some were plain crimson. Was this just a paint scheme (and doubtless task allocation) difference or were there physical differences as well? They certainly appeared identical to a casual observer.

[keefer]

@bécasseInitially they were all the same as only one type was built (equivalent to TOPS type NAV), they were just painted differently.

The crimson/cream ones would be those for main line trains, the crimson ones for secondary or parcels trains.

Can't remember when the internal security cages came in but was presumably meant for those likely to be in passenger train formations.

Main differences only came in b/g days i think, with the Newspaper versions and air-braking, ETH and 100mph bogies coming in for 'normal' BGs

Edited October 15, 2022 by keefer

[bécasse]

Thanks, Keefer. That was exactly what I had always assumed but this topic suddenly made me realise that I had just assumed it without having seen any proper confirmation that that assumption was correct.

[Davexoc]

Then there were the NHAs, which with special maintenance were allowed to run at 110mph. AFAIAA they were used on the WCML in Mk3 sets before the DVTs came in, so probably all in ICE livery, but may have escaped to the SW on summer Saturdays behind pairs of class 31s....

[HGR]

Bodywork differences are probably limited to early builds without window frames, and later ones with B.R. / Bardic alloy framed windows. Roof-wise there's nothing much to vary, other than maybe the ones that lost the roof grab rails above the end ascending steps once the upper steps had been removed in overhead electrification days. On some the short grab handrails remained on the roof. If you're looking at the original ordinary BGs that became NAV with the original B.R.1 bogies, the first batches were built with uncompensated brakegear, whereas later batches were built with compensated brakegear (and many older ones were modified to make them compensated). Same is true of other of the early Standard Carriage / Mk.1 vehicle types. The different brake linkages result in two outwardly-visible differences :

 

Uncompensated brakegear has the pull rods to the bogies mounted low down and pull almost horizontally from the cylinder cross shaft to the bogies below axle height. On these vehicles the vac brake cylinder at each end has to be mounted inboard of the 'V' hanger. For compensated brakegear (and any with Commonwealth or B4 / B5 bogies) the brake cylinders are mounted outer to the bogie side of the 'V' hanger and the pull from the cross shaft is taken over the top of the bogie frame, so the pull rod is mostly hidden between the frame members. 

 

[Wickham Green too]

12 minutes ago, HGR said:

... Roof-wise there's nothing much to vary, other than ...

... removal of periscopes !

[HGR]

39 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

... removal of periscopes !

Any idea of the range of dates for their removal ? Don't remember ever seeing any still remaining into the '80s so presume all had been removed well before that date ?

[Flood]

Just for a bit more detail there were three different styles of roof vent applied from new but the positions never changed between all the batches.

In addition, as the "shell" style vents (separate thin slivers of metal) were very prone to corrosion then these were replaced as required by either the original "ridge" style (as modelled on every 4mm rtr Mk1 that I've ever seen) or the "scallop" style used on the pressure ventilated Mk2 stock and late build Mk1s.

Edited October 20, 2022 by Flood