Class 33/0 to class 33/1

[lapford34102]

Just one side needs connecting, pair of brake pipes and the 27 way control jumper.  Having a pair meant redundancy and possibly convenience thjough if a 33/1 coupled up to a TC at Bournemouth bhy the time it had been to Weymouth and back it was on the "wrong" side for the shunter when the 33/1 came off. There was also the ETH jumper but that was at buffebeam level on the TC

You can also haul a  TC with a green 33. The TC's carried brake pipe extensions to connect the hi-level pipes to the beam mounted ones.  The  TC's buckeye had to be dropped and the buffers extended as there was no rubbing plate on the 33/0. The 33/1s buffers could be extended/retracted depending on what stock they were working with, retracted for the rubbing plate, extended for normal stock.

Stu

[Halvarras]

5 hours ago, lapford34102 said:

You can also haul a  TC with a green 33. 

 

Indeed, a photo of plain green D6511 hauling an obviously blue 4TC with cast BR logos in my first Ian Allan combined volume (1967 edition) had the young me baffled for years - I mean, surely all diesels had yellow panels long before BR blue appeared on anything......didn't they? As it turned out, apart from a few Class 20s in Scotland, quite a number of Class 33s had managed to evade the yellow paintbrush as late as 1967, and a May 1968-dated photo of D6583 still devoid of yellow exists.

The 'derbysulzers' website has a Class 33 section which includes livery information for the type and this appears to confirm that all 19 Class 33/1s were converted and repainted blue before any 33/0s or 33/2s got the new corporate look.

 

[ikcdab]

6 hours ago, lapford34102 said:

You can also haul a  TC with a green 33

Presumably you can haul a TC with anything. It's propelling it and driving from the TC end that needs all the specialist paraphernalia.

Ian

[lapford34102]

1 hour ago, ikcdab said:

Presumably you can haul a TC with anything. It's propelling it and driving from the TC end that needs all the specialist paraphernalia.

Correct, the Southern had a number of 09's and 03's air braked with hi-level pipes to shunt TC's, plus the odd Class 12 350hp. As for main line traction AFAIK no TC was moved by anything other than a 33/73/74/REP/VAB until after they'd be made redundant by the Wessex units and then it was vanishingly rare.

Stu

[Halvarras]

I wonder if a Class 42 Warship ever turned up off the Southern at Exeter with a couple of 4TCs in tow?......😉

 

Anyone remember the three 3TC sets 301-3? Same as the 4TC but missing the TFK (Trailer First). I recall seeing one in blue/grey livery at Reading attached to a Class 33/0, must have been in the early 1970s as they were strengthened to 4 cars in 1974 by inserting TFKs and renumbering 432-434 as an extension to the existing 4TC fleet.

[ikcdab]

What I do remember is seeing a 4tc + 33/1 propelling through Bruton at high speed.  This must have been 1980s at some point. 

I've no idea what route it was doing, presumably a diversion.  I guess it was heading to Weymouth via Westbury, castle Cary and Yeovil. 

Ian

 

[lapford34102]

1 hour ago, ikcdab said:

I've no idea what route it was doing, presumably a diversion.  I guess it was heading to Weymouth via Westbury, castle Cary and Yeovil. 

Weymouth had a TC turn to Bristol TM and back for a time. Memory foggy but wasn't it in theNSE period and possibly connected with the problems the 155 units were having, someone might know.

 

Anyone remember the three 3TC sets 301-3?

 

Built so a 4TC+4TC+3TC+loco could fit onto Waterloo's platform. They were turned into 4TC's at the same time as the 4 extra REP's were built

 

Stu

 

Edited October 28, 2022 by lapford34102
Finger trouble!

[Covkid]

On 28/10/2022 at 00:05, lapford34102 said:

 As for main line traction AFAIK no TC was moved by anything other than a 33/73/74/REP/VAB until after they'd be made redundant by the Wessex units and then it was vanishingly rare.

Stu

 

I disagree.  I remember seeing "Eddie" (50007) working a Salisbury-Waterloo TC once. 

Edited October 30, 2022 by Covkid

[ikcdab]

32 minutes ago, Covkid said:

 

I disagree.  I remember seeing "Eddie" (50007) working a Salisbury-Waterloo TC once. 

I think, as I said above, anything can haul a TC set in the same way that anything can haul a GWR autocoach.  But only the units you specified could properly propel a TC in the way it is intended.

Ian C

[lapford34102]

1 hour ago, Covkid said:

I disagree.  I remember seeing "Eddie" (50007) working a Salisbury-Waterloo TC once. 

As I said AFAIK........  Yes 50's did pull TC's  and it was earlier than I remembered, pre NSE. Perhaps someone can comment on how regular this happened compared to 33/1 haulage on the WoE line.

Stu

Edited October 30, 2022 by lapford34102
Spelling

[ikcdab]

Progress has been made! Body stripped down and painted.  I have the required parts, so reassembly starts tomorrow.

I have just noticed though that the 33/1 had the marker lights removed as the multi cables covered them.  I haven't done that and too late now as I would need to repaint the ends. I'll just have to let the cables cover them.

I'm pleased how the previously green loco has come out.

Ian

[ikcdab]

And now I do have a question.

I understand that the 33/1s were generally painted blue when converted.

But.... Did they carry numbers with the D prefix when blue, or by 1967, were they given the numbers only without the D prefix?

[RFS]

55 minutes ago, ikcdab said:

And now I do have a question.

I understand that the 33/1s were generally painted blue when converted.

But.... Did they carry numbers with the D prefix when blue, or by 1967, were they given the numbers only without the D prefix?

 

The D prefix was not dropped till some time after the end of steam in August 1968. 

[ikcdab]

44 minutes ago, RFS said:

 

The D prefix was not dropped till some time after the end of steam in August 1968. 

Yes I understand.  However, I can't find any pics of a 33/1 with a D prefix.

My supposition is that when they were converted and painted to blue in 1967, it wasn't thought worth adding a D at that stage.  The southern finished with steam in July 1967.

What do you think?

 

[SRman]

5 hours ago, ikcdab said:

Yes I understand.  However, I can't find any pics of a 33/1 with a D prefix.

My supposition is that when they were converted and painted to blue in 1967, it wasn't thought worth adding a D at that stage.  The southern finished with steam in July 1967.

What do you think?

 

 

Using my Heljan models as evidence, I have 33/1 D6520 in service propelling a blue TC set. That suggests that at least some of the 33/1s received the D prefix. Of course, there was the prototype 33/1, D6580 as well, but that was still in green. I'd have to go through some of my books to add to the list, but not right now.

p.s. D6535 is preserved with the D prefix.

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by SRman

[Halvarras]

The Derbysulzers website has a section on Class 33s, and a sub-section at the end has dates for repaints into blue. The Class 33/1 conversions were all completed during 1967 except the very first one, D6521, outshopped in November 1966. The 1965-converted green 'prototype', D6580, has no stated repaint date, but photos of it at Eastleigh in August 1967 probably speak for themselves. No Class 33/0s were repainted until all of the 33/1s had been finished. Since the decision to discontinue D prefixes on diesel locomotive numbers wasn't made until after steam traction finally came to an end on the BR network as a whole on 11th August 1968, all of the push-pull locos were originally outshopped with D prefixes - the SR was not permitted to 'go it alone' (if it had been left to the Regions the WR could have abandoned the D's around the same time Swindon started repainting the D800 Warships into maroon livery, never mind the arrival of BR blue!)

Edited December 29, 2022 by Halvarras
Got 1965 and 1966 mixed up!

[ikcdab]

5 hours ago, Halvarras said:

The Derbysulzers website has a section on Class 33s, and a sub-section at the end has dates for repaints into blue. The Class 33/1 conversions were all completed during 1967 except the very first one, D6521, outshopped in November 1966. The 1965-converted green 'prototype', D6580, has no stated repaint date, but photos of it at Eastleigh in August 1967 probably speak for themselves. No Class 33/0s were repainted until all of the 33/1s had been finished. Since the decision to discontinue D prefixes on diesel locomotive numbers wasn't made until after steam traction finally came to an end on the BR network as a whole on 11th August 1968, all of the push-pull locos were originally outshopped with D prefixes - the SR was not permitted to 'go it alone' (if it had been left to the Regions the WR could have abandoned the D's before BR blue had even arrived......ignoring D1030!)

Thank you, that's really helpful. D it is then.

Ian

[RFS]

Heljan produced the 33/1 in various guises one of which being D6511 which is what I have on my layout to push and pull my 4-TC. 

[ikcdab]

To conclude, I completed this job.

I could have made the new handrails neater and I have lost two windscreen wipers, but overall I am pleased.

It is now coupled to my 4TC.

Ian

 

 

 

 

 

[SRman]

42 minutes ago, ikcdab said:

To conclude, I completed this job.

I could have made the new handrails neater and I have lost two windscreen wipers, but overall I am pleased.

It is now coupled to my 4TC.

Ian

 

 

Nicely done, Ian.

I don't wish to detract from your work in any way, but don't forget to add the Pullman rubbing plates between the buffers.

 

[Halvarras]

7 hours ago, SRman said:

 

Nicely done, Ian.

I don't wish to detract from your work in any way, but don't forget to add the Pullman rubbing plates between the buffers.

 

 

Agreed, but it's more complicated than that because the lower edges of the cab fronts need cutting away to clear them. This isn't impossible to do without damaging the yellow ends but considerable care would need to be exercised - Ian, if you're happy with it as it is, I'd leave it - after all, all those out there running  Heljan's green D6580 have the opposite problem - the model (all three versions!) have Pullman rubbing plates which the real one only acquired on repaint into blue!

[slilley]

There are plenty of detail pictures of Class 33/1s in this book.

 

https://www.crecy.co.uk/the-class-33s

 

Simon

[roythebus1]

I doubt "proper" Warships would have pulled TC stock unless they were fitted with air brakes. :)