Moretonhampstead branch and Teign Valley Line

[Rivercider]

11 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

Thanks to @Rivercider for great pics! 🙂

 

Back to Heathfield for the start of the other part, the Teign Valley Line. Was the track plan always like this, with the Teign Valley Line forming a terminus next to the Newton line? Clearly there was a link, but in this arrangement not one that make any through traffic easy (i.e. Exeter to Newton Abbot via Heathfield)

 

 

 

The track curved north and then ran north east to Chudleigh Knighton Halt.

 

 

A small granite-block station with the classic GWR pagoda shelter.

 

 

This site is now under the A38 dual carriageway.

When the Teign Valley line opened in 1882 it was laid to standard gauge, there was no physical connection

with the broad gauge Moretonhampstead branch at Heathfield until 1892 when the broad gauge was changed to standard,

 

I believe in the early years the Teign Valley line was unkindly (but accurately) described as running from a heath to a field!

 

cheers

Edit - I now see 7802 has beaten me to it!

cheers

Edited November 12, 2022 by Rivercider
Additional info

[Compound2632]

On 10/11/2022 at 23:13, KeithMacdonald said:

With a classic picture of the large plaform canopy, c.1909.

 

 

Now that's a nice photo that has been discussed before, particularly with respect to date, given the all-over brown (or claret) carriages. What I like, though, this time round, are the two 4-wheel composites, both still in brown and cream. They look to me to be different lengths - a 26' 10" U4 and a 27' 6" U5? Both first/second composites at this date, but the U5 offering 2" more legroom in both classes.

 

Edit: The 6-wheel luggage composite, 31' 0" U16 I believe - is also a first/second composite. @Penrhos1920's website: 

http://www.gwrcoaches.org.uk/index.html

doesn't have a diagram, so compartment dimensions unknown. 

 

Edit: Oh so wrong-o - it's a 28 ft luggage third S5 and Penrhos uses this very photo to illustrate the type.

 

So that's four each of first and second class compartments, with four thirds in the 38' 6" D16 and four in the S5. Of course we can't see the rest of the train, but it gives an idea of the proportion of passengers in each class the line was handling: firsts seating six, seconds eight, and thirds 10; supposing the other vehicle is another D16, a ratio of around 3 first:4 second:10 third class passengers.

 

This photo of Lustleigh c. 1912 is one for @wenlock; it shows a much lower proportion of first / second class accommodation, with the third class passengers getting the grandeur of clerestory bogie stock:

 

 

(Apologies to @Harlequin; post edited since their reaction.)

Edited November 12, 2022 by Compound2632
Added discussion of class ratios - and then corrected it.

[Harlequin]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

(Apologies to @Harlequin; post edited since their reaction.)

No problem, I was liking the general discussion. 🙂

 

The 1909 photo of Moretonhampstead, viewed on Flickr and seemingly being scanned from an original postcard, is the best, most detailed version of that image I've ever seen. It's also reproduced in Karau's classic "Great Western Branch Line Termini" but this online version is much higher resolution (use the zoom function in Flickr).

 

The thing that jumps out at me, is not a railway detail I'm afraid: It's the creepy little Edwardian lad sitting on the fence in the lower centre of the photo, staring straight at the camera and holding a red devil's mask over his face!

 

He gives me goosebumps!

 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Harlequin

[KeithMacdonald]

7 hours ago, 7802 said:

The layout was changed eventually (I believe in the Second World War so that it could be used as a diversionary route in case of enemy bombardment of the coastal route via dawlish) so that no reversal was required.

see the second signal diagram on the link below  https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwe/S902.htm

 

@7802 - thanks for that, I'd completely forgotten to have a look at the SRS diagrams, it makes things so much easier.

 

So here's a 1940's version, based on the SRS diagram, but still with the older OS map as the background to help get the scale and proportions as close as I can.

 

 

Oh, by the way, that extra siding on the SRS diagram (bottom right, on the other side of the road bridge) helps give us an exact reference point for this Geograph picture of what became an ECC private siding. With thanks to Mike Crowe.

 

Quote

ECC private siding and sheds, Heathfield - This is the now unused Heathfield to Newton Abbot branchline, with a view of the English China Clay transfer shed and private siding on the right. This line formerly carried rail traffic to Moretonhampstead on Dartmoor and also up the Teign valley to Exeter, via Christow. In recent times, it still served two factories at nearby Heathfield Industrial Estate, although nowadays it is virtually mothballed. There are regular rumours that it may be reopened in the future.

 

 

© Copyright Mike Crowe and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.

 

It looks like the picture was taken in 2005 from the elevation of the road bridge. Since then all the trees have grown so much the track is now only just visible in Google Satellite view.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.5721213,-3.6452398,103m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

 

With Google Earth, I measured the length of that ECC building as 140 metres. Might we allow a smaller version on a model layout?

e.g.

https://scalescenes.com/product/t029-china-clay-loading-facilities/

 

 

[KeithMacdonald]

9 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Cecil Torr's Small Talk at Wreyland is essential reading for anyone who wants to get the atmosphere of the area.

 

@Compound2632 thanks. Reading the reviews and descriptions online makes it sound worth getting a copy. It reminds me how little life had changed in some Devon villages tucked up the valleys on the edge of Dartmoor, even into the 1980's.

 

 

[KeithMacdonald]

@Compound2632 - a couple of questions, if I may, just out of curiosity.

 

What kind of coach do you think that is behind the engine?

 

 

Then, on the platform, there's a pile of what looks like wicker baskets. I think I've seen the same in other pics of the station, which implies something regular. From the way they are piled higgledy-piggledy, I'm assuming they are empties. But for what? Perhaps returning empty after conveying fresh vegetables to Newton market?

 

[KeithMacdonald]

4 hours ago, Harlequin said:

The thing that jumps out at me, is not a railway detail I'm afraid: It's the creepy little Edwardian lad sitting on the fence in the lower centre of the photo, staring straight at the camera and holding a red devil's mask over his face!

 

Arr, me dear, can you keep a secret? Thars no Edwardian lad, thars a young Devon Pixie, playing pranks on the visitors and newcomers. Best leave out a jug of best fresh full-cream milk and all will be well, proper job. Most of 'em now live in Pixieland at Dartmeet.

 

Quote

Pixieland was established in 1947 when many of the Moorland Pixies decided to settle with us. 

https://pixieland.co.uk/

[Compound2632]

28 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said:

What kind of coach do you think that is behind the engine?

 

40 ft passenger brake van to diagram K4, going by Penrhos's site again:

http://www.gwrcoaches.org.uk/index.html

There it says there were 124 built, making them, I think, the most numerous type of bogie passenger brake van by some margin, at the date of the photograph.

 

28 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said:

Then, on the platform, there's a pile of what looks like wicker baskets. I think I've seen the same in other pics of the station, which implies something regular. From the way they are piled higgledy-piggledy, I'm assuming they are empties. But for what? Perhaps returning empty after conveying fresh vegetables to Newton market?

 

Wikipedia says, without giving any citation. "The railway was also used by local industries: farmers' produce, nursery plants and blacksmiths' products were all sent by train."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lustleigh#The_Railway_and_Lustleigh

I think we can discount blacksmiths' products. I don't know how nursery plants would be packaged at this date. So I'd go with farmers' produce, putting my money on fruit. Cecil Torr writes of cider being produced locally - IIRC he had restored the cider press attached to his property - so there were presumably apple orchards.

Edited November 12, 2022 by Compound2632

[drduncan]

28 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said:

@Compound2632 - a couple of questions, if I may, just out of curiosity.

 

What kind of coach do you think that is behind the engine?

 

 

Then, on the platform, there's a pile of what looks like wicker baskets. I think I've seen the same in other pics of the station, which implies something regular. From the way they are piled higgledy-piggledy, I'm assuming they are empties. But for what? Perhaps returning empty after conveying fresh vegetables to Newton market?

 

I think it is a K4 - but as I’m on my mobile I can’t use @penhros1920 ‘s wonderful site to check.

Duncan

[drduncan]

Stephen beat me to it!

Duncan

[Rivercider]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

40 ft passenger brake van to diagram K4, going by Penrhos's site again:

http://www.gwrcoaches.org.uk/index.html

There it says there were 124 built, making them, I think, the most numerous type of bogie passenger brake van by some margin, at the date of the photograph.

 

 

Wikipedia says, without giving any citation. "The railway was also used by local industries: farmers' produce, nursery plants and blacksmiths' products were all sent by train."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lustleigh#The_Railway_and_Lustleigh

I think we can discount blacksmiths' products. I don't know how nursery plants would be packaged at this date. So I'd go with farmers' produce, putting my money on fruit. Cecil Torr writes of cider being produced locally - IIRC he had restored the cider press attached to his property - so there were presumably apple orchards.

Were rabbits a big thing from here?

I know that the traffic in rabbits was significant on the GWR Taunton to Barnstaple line, and also very important on the North Cornwall line from Okehampton to Wadebridge and Padstow. 

My great uncle Bill who worked on his fathers farm near Christow says they (with the local community in support) shot 2000 rabbits in the first summer (1934 I think) they worked the farm,

 

cheers

Edited November 12, 2022 by Rivercider
tidying up. and date added

[KeithMacdonald]

7 hours ago, Harlequin said:

The 1909 photo of Moretonhampstead, viewed on Flickr and seemingly being scanned from an original postcard, is the best, most detailed version of that image I've ever seen.

 

I concur. It's the kind of picture you find new things each time you look.

 

The porter waiting with a trolley at the ready, a Devon maid(?) in a long smock dress, and a few lads hanging round the station.

 

 

At first I thought it was some kind of toy town, then I realised it was a set of traditional bee hives.

 

 

[Compound2632]

I have amended my earlier post as, looking again at the photo of Moretonhampstead station, I realised that I had mis-identified the centre-luggage 6-wheeler. There is no wide panel between the compartments, which are therefore thirds not firsts and seconds; the carriage is an S5 not a U16. Mea maxima culpa:

 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Compound2632

[KeithMacdonald]

More from Heathfield, thanks to Nic Joynson

 

Quote

The Creecher from the Heath - In the days when there were still oil trains running in the west country, 47197 passes Creech St Michael, near Taunton, with 6Z54, the 1300 Heathfield to Briton Ferry returning oil empties. ... Heathfield, on the stub of the former Moretonhampstead line from Newton Abbot was continued to generate rail traffic into the 21st century. In 1990, the weekly oil train from South Wales supplemented daily china clay traffic, for both domestic and international customers. Oil traffic finished in January 1996.

 

 

 

 He then mentions something that was a surprise to me!

 

Quote

An unusual short term flow on the branch was tinned Ambrosia rice pudding! This had been railed from Moretonhampstead back in the 1960s but it reappeared, briefly in early 1988 where it was railed via the Speedlink network.

 

I'd always believed that Ambrosia came from Lifton near Launceston.

https://launcestonthen.co.uk/index.php/the-parishes/lifton/ambrosia/

Or had Moreton become a railhead for Ambrosia after Launceston lost its two railways (GWR and Southern)?

[KeithMacdonald]

Back to the Teign Valley Line?

 

Last station we stopped at was Chudleigh. The station down in the river valley is a fair way from the town, further up hill. Probably inevitable, as the railway avoided the high ground and Chudleigh Rocks, a large limestone outcrop, full of quarries, ravines and caves.

 

As teenagers growing up in Devon, we used to cycle all over the place, exploring nooks and crannies, the remoter the better, including caves and derelict mines. No elf'n'safty, just an Ever Ready torch. Some places felt like time had forgotten them. For teenage children the Chudleigh caves were an adventure playground (no elf'n'safty in those days to spoil the fun and danger).

 

One weekend, we did make one unusual find, which we took to school the next Monday to ask Dr Wood (the biology teacher) to identify. He gave it a long look, and then gave us an even longer hard look, and then told us to take it down to Teignmouth Police Station, in school time!  If interested, PM me for more details.

 

Before we get to the next station up the line after Chudleigh, there's a couple of sidings to take a look at.

 

Edited November 12, 2022 by KeithMacdonald
typo

[Harlequin]

4 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Then, on the platform, there's a pile of what looks like wicker baskets. I think I've seen the same in other pics of the station, which implies something regular. From the way they are piled higgledy-piggledy, I'm assuming they are empties. But for what? Perhaps returning empty after conveying fresh vegetables to Newton market?

 

 

They could well be rabbit baskets - exactly what @drduncan was asking about.

 

I have seen similar baskets in a photo of Kingsbridge station and the caption stated that those were rabbit baskets - but I can't track that photo down now! 😞

 

Edit: Found it: It's in this PDF:

https://u3asites.org.uk/files/k/kingsbridgeestuary/docs/250yearsoftransportinkingsbridge.pdf

Edited November 12, 2022 by Harlequin

[Compound2632]

29 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

 

They could well be rabbit baskets - exactly what @drduncan was asking about.

 

I have seen similar baskets in a photo of Kingsbridge station and the caption stated that those were rabbit baskets

 

 

One one has fought one's way through all the baskets for pet rabbits to sit in, and baskets shaped like rabbits, the internet does suggest that such baskets might also be used for poultry. Cue more images of hen-shaped baskets...

[KeithMacdonald]

Just a few hundred yards before Trusham Station, the line went over Crockham Quarry, just before Crockham Bridge.  There was a small siding into the quarry, which shows on both RailMapOnline and the 1949 OS map

 

 

 

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16.9&lat=50.61727&lon=-3.62576&layers=193&b=1

 

Crockham Quarry is a designated Site of Special Scientific Interest.

 

Quote

The site comprises the western exposures of a large working quarry developed in coarse greenstone. One of the main interests here is the exposure of the lower contact between a coarse, variably hydrothermally altered metadolerite and cleaved Lower Carboniferous argillites. The argillite is the only mildly adinolized and exhibits excellent thermal spotting and the development of prismatic andalusite. Elsewhere wedges of metasediment within the greenstone body are highly argillized due to later hydrothermal activity.

 

https://johnblanchard.net/index.php/wildlife-sites-of-interest-protected-areas/102-crockham-quarry-sssi

 

Well, mange tout Rodney! A child of five could understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five.

[KeithMacdonald]

Next stop, Trusham Station

 

This track plan is on the 1905 OS map

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=18.0&lat=50.61920&lon=-3.62800&layers=168&b=1

 

Trusham had a single platform on the west side of the line with a goods loop and signal box. 
 

 

Some time later, the goods loop was removed.

e.g. SRS diagrams

https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwe/S893.htm

 

This picture shows both the goods loop, signal box and sidings beside the one station.

 

Out of sight, on the left round the curve, was Trusham Quarry which produced roadstone.

 

 

 

[KeithMacdonald]

Less than 1/2 a mile further up the line was Whetcombe Quarry with sidings. Crushed roadstone was loaded from tanks directly into wagons.

 

 

 

[Morello Cherry]

4 hours ago, Harlequin said:

No problem, I was liking the general discussion. 🙂

 

The 1909 photo of Moretonhampstead, viewed on Flickr and seemingly being scanned from an original postcard, is the best, most detailed version of that image I've ever seen. It's also reproduced in Karau's classic "Great Western Branch Line Termini" but this online version is much higher resolution (use the zoom function in Flickr).

 

The thing that jumps out at me, is not a railway detail I'm afraid: It's the creepy little Edwardian lad sitting on the fence in the lower centre of the photo, staring straight at the camera and holding a red devil's mask over his face!

 

He gives me goosebumps!

 

 

I like it (it is like the two blokes hitting each other with clubs in the art work at Charing Cross Northern line). I wonder if there is a context to it - if it were possible to date it to a month then there might be some local festival that the mask is connected with ie halloween.

 

It is like a sheena-na-gig or something else you find carved high up in the stone work of a church.

It could have been worse, he could have been mooning the photographer.

[KeithMacdonald]

1 hour ago, Morello Cherry said:

I wonder if there is a context to it - if it were possible to date it to a month then there might be some local festival that the mask is connected with ie halloween.

 

I was wondering if the location would give any clues.

 

 

Just to the right of the creepy lad on the fence is a culvert under the track. Various maps identify that as part of Wadley Brook.

 

 

On OpenStreetMap, the same brook shows as a wooded area, but also shows the field boundary/fence, and a footpath in the field on higher ground to the south. Which is probably the spot from where the original picture was taken.

 

 

I had a look on Google and Geograph in case there are any modern images from the same location. Nothing exactly matched in my search results, but one thing that might interest folks is a drone picture showing the post-railway industrial area being redeveloped as new houses.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.6570889,-3.7604554,3a,75y,4.3h,49.54t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipMdP_z_HGdF88u3dKODiuw_5luzdtjaYKYcg404!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipMdP_z_HGdF88u3dKODiuw_5luzdtjaYKYcg404%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi0-ya324.34894-ro-0-fo100!7i4096!8i2048?hl=en

 

The footpath has now been upgraded to a cycleway, Sustrans Route 28.

 

https://explore.osmaps.com/?lat=50.649707&lon=-3.770716&zoom=12.7199&overlays=os-ncn-layer&style=Standard&type=2d&placesCategory=

 

 

Edited November 13, 2022 by KeithMacdonald
Added link to Sustrans Route 28

[KeithMacdonald]

I did find a couple on items on Geograph that might be of interest?

 

Quote

Former engine shed - Now within the yard of a road haulage company, the shed was built in 1866 for the South Devon Railway Company when the Newton Abbot to Moretonhampstead branch line was opened. An early example of a broad gauge railway engine shed. Listed, grade II, with details at:

 

 

https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/5955908

© Copyright Michael Dibb and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.

 

The old goods shed is still there as well. Six years ago:

 

https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/5125185

© Copyright David Smith and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.

 

It was still there (November 2021) in the middle of the new houses.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.6581132,-3.7601094,3a,39.5y,153.57h,85.81t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1stHsj80pd2mgW6imFWWDdiA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DtHsj80pd2mgW6imFWWDdiA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D96.53658%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en

 

 

[Rivercider]

On my numerous visits to see my late Uncle who lived in Moretonhampstead I sometimes walked part of the north end of the Wray Valley trail, which mostly follows the track bed of the Moretonhampstead branch. 

 

A couple of new footbridges have been erected to join up sections of the former track bed, the A382 road is not great for driving, and certainly not a good idea to cycle or walk along.

 

Footbridge near Steward Cottages and the Pepperdon Hall Lane junction 7/10/2016

 

 

This was the same bridge abutment before work began, 5/2/2015

 

Up on the embankment above the abutment is some old GWR fencing, re-using broad gauge rail.

 

This old rail was marked Panteg Steelworks & Eng, 5/2/2015.

 

cheers

 

 

 

 

 

[Rivercider]

Nearer to Moretonhampstead along the track bed is another replacement footbridge.

 

Looking north towards Moretonhampstead 19/11/2019

 

Alongside the footpath just south of Moretonhampstead is a long concrete beam, which I believe to be a former signal post. Not knowing the signalling here it might be the down distant or perhaps the up starter?

Metal fixings on the concrete post beside the footpath, 19/11/2019

 

cheers