COVHOPs/BRT Whisky Grain Hoppers: how were they filled?

[GraemeWatson]

Dear esteemed members of RMWeb, I have searched for information on COVHOP grain/whisky hopper loading to no avail.

 

Introduction:

My basic understanding of Whisky grain transportation is that grain warehouses in East Anglia led to short freights, which could then be added to block formations before heading to Scotland.

 

Question:

But, how were these Grain Hoppers filled?

 

I happened across a Bachmann Whiskies Galore set and noted from the box art the silver Bachmann Scenecraft 44-185 Grain Loading Hoppers in the background. Do they go over the track to fill the COVHOP, or are they located trackside?

 

I've added a quick photo of the model in question to show what I mean, but my specific question is about the prototype of how this would function.

 

Any examples of grain loading along these lines would be well received.

Any other suggestions of prototypical locations or hardware that may be needed to complete this scene would also be welcome.

 

Many thanks,

Graeme

 

[BR traction instructor]

…by gravity, through chutes/arms above the loading hatches slid open on the roof.

 

Googling any of the East Anglian grain loading points will produce images of the equipment used.

 

BeRTIe

Edited November 7, 2022 by BR traction instructor

[GraemeWatson]

7 minutes ago, BR traction instructor said:

…by gravity, through chutes/arms above the loading hatches slid open on the roof.

 

Googling any of the East Anglian grain loading points will produce images of the equipment used.

 

BeRTIe

Many thanks; so the Bachmann product above, placed on the track over the hopper would be a satisfactory arrangement?

[BR traction instructor]

…not normally…the silos would be adjacent to the siding with arms/chutes fed in the same way as in the picture above.

 

BeRTIe

[cctransuk]

4 minutes ago, GraemeWatson said:

Many thanks; so the Bachmann product above, placed on the track over the hopper would be a satisfactory arrangement?

 

Look at the relative sizes - that mini-silo would struggle to fill one wagon.

 

The grain stores were huge buildings - they had to be to regularly fill several wagons.

 

A low relief industrial building is what is required.

 

CJI.

[GraemeWatson]

9 minutes ago, BR traction instructor said:

…not normally…the silos would be adjacent to the siding with arms/chutes fed in the same way as in the picture above.

 

BeRTIe

Many thanks; I don't think your photo had popped in for me when I first replied.

Very grateful for this helpful information.

[Izzy]

In lots of cases these would be loaded in small goods yards using a grain auger where there wasn’t a silo. Single wagon loads were common around East Anglia. Ordinary grain as well as malted. Augers would be used in grain stores to get it to the hoppers. A lot was stored in sacks in the upper storeys, especially in floor maltings. TBH the Bachmann grain silos look more reminiscent of more modern cement hoopers. 

[GraemeWatson]

26 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Look at the relative sizes - that mini-silo would struggle to fill one wagon.

 

The grain stores were huge buildings - they had to be to regularly fill several wagons.

 

A low relief industrial building is what is required.

 

CJI.

Agree with the sizing.

You are absolutely right. 

I owned the Whisky set, and happened to have the Bachmann silo used in their box art, but was struggling to make sense of it all. Many thanks 

[doilum]

3 minutes ago, Izzy said:

In lots of cases these would be loaded in small goods yards using a grain auger where there wasn’t a silo. Single wagon loads were common around East Anglia. Ordinary grain as well as malted. Augers would be used in grain stores to get it to the hoppers. A lot was stored in sacks in the upper storeys, especially in floor maltings. TBH the Bachmann grain silos look more reminiscent of more modern cement hoopers. 

As a student in the mid seventies, I worked a couple of summers in a maltkiln. Until a few years previously they had a rail siding which was lifted when Guinness ended their rail traffic. From loading practices at the time the rail wagons were probably loaded individually using an auger from inside the building. The auger would have been fed from sacks by a man with a shovel. The important thing was to keep the grain dry.

These Victorian methods continued into the early eighties when, following a large fire the site was modernised.

[Cwmtwrch]

The interesting question about the Bachmann silo is - how is it filled??

[GraemeWatson]

7 minutes ago, Cwmtwrch said:

The interesting question about the Bachmann silo is - how is it filled??

Also this. You are absolutely right.

These are sold as "grain silos" and do appear to "pretend function" by dropping grain out of the bottom, but I've not found a photo of anything like this in use. 

[Izzy]

 

Here's my take on things on my latest 2mm layout.

 

A grain store/maltings with an upper storey auger for hopper loading.

 

 

This is based on the now derelict maltings at Thorpe-le-soken. They exist at the rear of the station and have a preservation order on them. You'd hardly know having fallen into this terrible state of disrepair over the years.

 

 

 

Bob

 

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, Izzy said:

TBH the Bachmann grain silos look more reminiscent of more modern cement hoopers. 

 

As far as size goes, the silo is of the type often seen at intensive chicken rearing farms for feed storage.

 

Another use nowadays is bulk cement storage at building sites.

 

John Isherwood.

[GraemeWatson]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

As far as size goes, the silo is of the type often seen at intensive chicken rearing farms for feed storage.

 

Another use nowadays is bulk cement storage at building sites.

 

John Isherwood.

Thanks John, an excellent point RE: being more suited to agricultural application.

Potentially then, the box art on the Bachmann Whisky set is misleading it seems.

 

Many thanks.

[GraemeWatson]

1 hour ago, Izzy said:

 

Here's my take on things on my latest 2mm layout.

 

A grain store/maltings with an upper storey auger for hopper loading.

 

 

This is based on the now derelict maltings at Thorpe-le-soken. They exist at the rear of the station and have a preservation order on them. You'd hardly know having fallen into this terrible state of disrepair over the years.

 

 

 

Bob

 

Many thanks for sharing this Bob.

This looks to replicate the prototype correctly. The mistake I was at risk of making was trusting the Bachmann box art on the Whisky set, because I could not find any real life example which bore resemblance to it .

 

Much appreciated.

[Michael Hodgson]

2 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

As far as size goes, the silo is of the type often seen at intensive chicken rearing farms for feed storage.

 

Another use nowadays is bulk cement storage at building sites.

 

John Isherwood.

Still leaves the question of how do you fill it - pump the stuff in using compressed air ?

[Michael Hodgson]

1 hour ago, GraemeWatson said:

The mistake I was at risk of making was trusting the Bachmann box art on the Whisky set, because I could not find any real life example which bore resemblance to it .

 

Much appreciated.

That's the trouble with RTR box art - tends to be aimed at the toy market.

[Fat Controller]

26 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Still leaves the question of how do you fill it - pump the stuff in using compressed air ?

Archimedes screw; basically a screw within a fabricated tube. https://kids.kiddle.co/Archimedes'_screw seems to be a reasonable explanation. 

[41516]

40 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Still leaves the question of how do you fill it - pump the stuff in using compressed air ?

Vacuum pumps also seem to be common for bulk handling of grain.

[GraemeWatson]

To further expand about the prototypical nature of the Bachmann Scenecraft 44-185 Grain Loading Hoppers, the box art on the back of the product shows two such hoppers in use for loading COVHOP wagons, evidently not the Whisky type.

With this is mind, does anyone know of a prototype that this is therefore based upon by Bachmann?

[cctransuk]

2 minutes ago, GraemeWatson said:

To further expand about the prototypical nature of the Bachmann Scenecraft 44-185 Grain Loading Hoppers, the box art on the back of the product shows two such hoppers in use for loading COVHOP wagons, evidently not the Whisky type.

With this is mind, does anyone know of a prototype that this is therefore based upon by Bachmann?

 

Given that Bachmann placed a bulk POWDER wagon below what they describe as a GRAIN loading terminal, they clearly wern't too concerned about prototype fidelity!

 

I'd be surprised if you find anything on which this scenario is based.

 

CJI.

[GraemeWatson]

4 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Given that Bachmann placed a bulk POWDER wagon below what they describe as a GRAIN loading terminal, they clearly wern't too concerned about prototype fidelity!

 

I'd be surprised if you find anything on which this scenario is based.

 

CJI.

Excellent. You are absolutely right.

Thanks to you and to everyone here for casting some light on a state of confusion caused by product packaging!

 

I'm very grateful for everyone's time and responses here.

[russ p]

Mine get loaded at these two walthers kits 

They can also be unloaded for transfer to coastal shipping 

[spamcan61]

35 minutes ago, russ p said:

Mine get loaded at these two walthers kits.

 

Nice one, they look really impressive: being 'HO' I'd never taken much notice of the Walthers kits, but having seen them used on OO layouts in both HM and BRM in recent times I've had a bit of a browse of what's available and there's some really impressive, and good value, buildings there. As discussed recently here, HO buildings can look more 'to scale' than OO ones on layouts, particularly when it comes to big structures.

 

I assume this is the grain elevator you used above, with added ship loading facility?

 

https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/walthers-cornerstone-wh933-3022.html

 

 

Edited November 8, 2022 by spamcan61

[russ p]

1 minute ago, spamcan61 said:

Nice one, they look really impressive: being 'HO' I'd never taken much notice of the Walthers kits, but having seen them used on OO layouts in both HM and BRM in recent times I've had a bit of a browse of what's available and there's some really impressive, and good value, buildings there. As discussed recently here, HO buildings can look more 'to scale' than OO ones on layouts, particularly when it comes to big structures.

 

 

 

Walthers kits I've used went together very easily and were nice to build.  As the US loading gauge is so much bigger than ours the loading bays look right for OO

I have a pair of walthers bridges which are also fine these can be seen in the top of second picture