Tramway style overhead - prototype and modelling??

[Ralf]

Hi All,

Have always had a lurking curiosity of overhead powered odd industrial steeple cabs electrons and harbour a desire to have some overhead on a layout one day. Well as a keen tramway photographer (esp heritage) and beginner modeller, today is the day - perhaps pushed given a recent RTR announcement (ahem).

 

So I realise I know virtually nothing about old tramway style overhead! I know a little about the prototype and even less about modelling it, a little bit of research has filled in a few gaps / found some reading:

 

Mark Hughes etches - https://glostransporthistory.visit-gloucestershire.co.uk/Mark Hughes Models.htm available from him or from East Lancs Model Tramway Supplies.

 

East Lancs Model Tramway Supplies themselves list stuff here (http://www.themodeltramshop.com/catalogues-downloads/) in their catalogue incl a starter pack... But what do I need? 

 

Then there’s this article on a shoestring: https://www.tramwayinfo.com/tramways/Download/Overhead.pdf

 

Some terms explained here http://www.bathtram.org/tfb/tEars.htm

 

BUT I’ve still got questions if you will indulge me:

Ears: - seem to be the joining items between span wires and the traction wire, how do I solder the traction wire under an ear mounted on the layout hanging from a span wire?

Hangers: - No idea, Mark Hughes makes 3 versions?

Pull Off’s: - To do with tensioning the traction wire on curves, not currently an issue for me, it's a narrow straight layout, except the crossovers (oh 'eck...??) 

Frogs: - I understand re: Trolley Poles but do I need the same ones for Pantograph / Bow Collector operation? (I have ZERO interest) in using model trolley poles it looks like a headache)

 

Cantilever poles are out aren’t they? A frightfully(ish) modern concept and not for the 60s-80s industrial backwaters?

 

Finally how on earth do I model the attaching of the span wire to buildings or the traction poles? Any guidance, tips, reading, references to either the prototype or the modelling of it would be much appreciated. Phew I hope that makes sense, I've been reading the links and going round in circles looking for advice! 

 

Many thanks 
Ralf 

ps Yes in 4mm scale / 1:75 which I failed to make clear other than hinting via the RTR reference) 

Edited November 29, 2022 by Ralf
4mm scale!

[BR60103]

Frogs are required for pole operation.  For pantograph/bow collector, the diverging wire may be run over the main line wire. I've seen it, but I don't know how.  Or the diverging wire is brought close to the main wire, run parallel to it for a distance, then the main wire is led off to a tensioner and the diverging wire becomes the main wire.  

I have seen pole+ pantograph operation (our local streetcar museum) where there is a pair of wires beside the frog that push down the pantograph so that it doesn't snag.  

Toronto is converting its overhead from pole to pantograph.  I haven't had a good look at the transition wiring.

Note that pantograph wire wanders so that it doesn't wear a groove in the collector.

 

[Ralf]

18 hours ago, BR60103 said:

Note that pantograph wire wanders so that it doesn't wear a groove in the collector.

 

 

Ah, do Trolley Pole only set-ups not intentionally wander then? Just assumed they did, but why would they? 

Ralf

 

[Erichill16]

I know this is probably not quite what you’re interested in but here’s a link to my club, Barnsley MRC’s, tramway layout, Yorkshire Coast Tramway. I’ve not really been involved in it’s construction but have operated it on many occasions.

 

[Nearholmer]

1 hour ago, Ralf said:

Ah, do Trolley Pole only set-ups not intentionally wander then? Just assumed they did, but why would they? 

It’s a sort yes and no answer.

 

For pantograph operation, the contact wire has to remain within the fairly narrow breadth of the collector on the pantograph head, and be staggered from side to side in order to even put wear, so it’s position has to be fairly tightly controlled.

 

With trolley-pole operation, there is more freedom to position the contact wire, because the pole can generally reach a lot further than a the head of a pantograph. This allowed he contact wire to wander where that saved the expense of keeping it tightly above the track. You will sometimes see pictures of industrial and other systems where a trolley-pole loco is shunting on a track with no contact wire, the trolley-pole reaching over to the wire on an adjacent track, which works provided the return circuit is bonded to the rails on which the loco is running, and the poles supporting the OLE are positioned to permit it. Sometimes even “wander leads” were used to supply locos.

 

 

Edited November 30, 2022 by Nearholmer

[ColinK]

1 hour ago, Erichill16 said:

I know this is probably not quite what you’re interested in but here’s a link to my club, Barnsley MRC’s, tramway layout, Yorkshire Coast Tramway. I’ve not really been involved in it’s construction but have operated it on many occasions.

 

Thanks for posting that video, really enjoyed it.  I had a holiday in the Isle of Man recently and recognised many of the scenes.  I made a video of the trip if its of any interest.

[BR60103]

Wire for pole operation tends to be centred, although the wire runs around curves in short straight sections.  There was a trick (in modelling, at least) of moving the frog slightly in the curved direction so that the pole was pulled through the frog towards the straight side (when that was wanted). And the frog was located closer to the track frog than the crossing of the centerlines so that the pole was pulled to the curved side when that was wanted.

There was a problem when one path through a switch was used almost exclusively. The frog could wear so that the pole followed the usual direction even though the car went the other way.

(I always wanted to be a streetcar modeller, so I have a lot of lore built up.)

 

[Erichill16]

3 hours ago, ColinK said:

Thanks for posting that video, really enjoyed it.  I had a holiday in the Isle of Man recently and recognised many of the scenes.  I made a video of the trip if its of any interest.

Yes, it would be good to see.

[New Haven Neil]

9 hours ago, Erichill16 said:

I know this is probably not quite what you’re interested in but here’s a link to my club, Barnsley MRC’s, tramway layout, Yorkshire Coast Tramway. I’ve not really been involved in it’s construction but have operated it on many occasions.

 

 

Ooohhhh that was nice!  Familiar local scenes well melded into a useable layout.  I had only seen the depot previously, friend Nick is a member of that club, who Robert/Eric obviously knows.  No frogs in our overhead on the Manx Electric Railway though, just paired wires that the pole is passed over to as required.

[Ralf]

18 hours ago, Erichill16 said:

I know this is probably not quite what you’re interested in but here’s a link to my club, Barnsley MRC’s, tramway layout, Yorkshire Coast Tramway.

 

Wow!! Seriously impressive stuff, having visited the Island there's plenty of bits I recognise and some stunning modelling. 

Ralf

 

[melmerby]

On the Birmingham & Black Country system, at Dudley Port aqueduct/railway bridges, to get the under the low arch, the contact wire was moved to a lower level at the side, it was actually lower than the tram roof!

 

There's a couple of pictures in David Harvey's Birmingham Tram books.

Edited December 1, 2022 by melmerby

[ColinK]

18 hours ago, Erichill16 said:

Yes, it would be good to see.

 

Rather than hijack this topic, I've started a separate topic 'Isle of Man Trains and Trams' which has the video I made recently.