Chassis for SR E1 0-6-0T

[Coromar]

Hi All,

 

I have acquired a brass body for a SR E1 0-6-0T at the Guildford Trade Show. It seems very well built and I thought I would finish it off by getting it to run.

 

I thought Premier Components would  be able supply a chassis kit for me, but they don't produce one. I belive Meteor Models used to produce a E1/R chassis that I thought I could use but I can't find the company on the interweb.

 

So, does anyone know :-

 

                                           1. what is the wheelbase of the E1,

                                           2. Does anyone know of a chassis kit I can use,

                                          3. Does anyone have a suitable chassis for sale?

 

Any help would be gratefully received.

 

Best wishes,

 

Paul

[doilum]

Looks like you could be ready for your first lessons in chassis building. This would be an excellent first project. No doubt there will be no shortage of good advice available if you decide to have a go.

[bluestag]

22 hours ago, Coromar said:

Hi All,

 

I have acquired a brass body for a SR E1 0-6-0T at the Guildford Trade Show. It seems very well built and I thought I would finish it off by getting it to run.

 

I thought Premier Components would  be able supply a chassis kit for me, but they don't produce one. I belive Meteor Models used to produce a E1/R chassis that I thought I could use but I can't find the company on the interweb.

 

So, does anyone know :-

 

                                           1. what is the wheelbase of the E1,

                                           2. Does anyone know of a chassis kit I can use,

                                          3. Does anyone have a suitable chassis for sale?

 

Any help would be gratefully received.

 

Best wishes,

 

Paul

Scratch building is not impossible.   Use 25 thou brass.   Cut openings for Slaters sprung horn blocks, that way you are not going to go wrong if you get a center line off by a fraction of a mm.    Ask how wide the spacers should be.   Look at kits you have for hints on how to go about such a project.   You will be glad you did, in the end.   If necessary, buy Iain Rice's book on chassis construction.

[doilum]

Premier Components might still be able to help. The first thing is to establish the wheelbase of the driving wheels. Don't worry about the exact prototype dimensions,.the important thing is to have a chassis that fits the body you have bought. Using the body.and photos make a simple drawing to establish where the wheels should sit. This will give a two part wheel base which can be converted from scale millimeters to real size feet and inches. A quick scan of the PC catalogue should reveal some prototype with a very similar wheelbase to your model. The coupling rods can then.be used to mark out your frames either in brass or 60 thou plastikard.

Speaking from personal experience the quality of the PC rods are excellent and the slight extra expense of the split rods is worthwhile. 

[bluestag]

6 hours ago, doilum said:

 

Speaking from personal experience the quality of the PC rods are excellent and the slight extra expense of the split rods is worthwhile. 

I agree.

[Coromar]

Thank you for replies.

 

The idea of making my own chassis hadn't occurred to me. I have no tools for brass work but the idea of using 60thou plasticard seems up my street as I construct trucks, coaches and one engine body in plastic. 

 

Is there anything special I need to know to make a chassis out of plastic?

 

Best wishes,

 

Paul

[doilum]

Key piece of kit is a pin vice and a few 1mm drills. Double sided tape will allow you to drill a pilot hole through both sides. You will need brass frame bushes and it may be worth doubling up the thickness of the frame sides around the axle holes. Open the holes with a series of drills to avoid the drill grabbing. If you can find it black plastikard saves painting. My preference would be for plunger pickups. Altogether wheels, bushes and pickups from Slaters should come in at around 100 pounds.

If you find some rods from PC these can be used with the crankpin bushes supplied by Slaters to template the axle centres . Having drilled the first axle pilot 1mm the coupling rod can be anchored with a spare or broken drill. This allows you to drill the one at the far end. Finally, with this end secured as well the center can be drilled. This way the chassis will match rods.

Edited December 2, 2022 by doilum

[doilum]

Another useful purchase are two or three brass frame spacers. These can be used as designed or as temporary fittings to get the chassis running. They can be then replaced with full plastikard cross members. Scratch building in brass this is my preferred approach using the pre drilled pilot pick up holes for the temporary spacers.

Spacers can be sourced from Eileen's Emporium, Roxey Mouldings or Roundhouse Engineering. Just check that the spacers plus 2x 60 thou plastikard don't exceed the back to back.

[bluestag]

Doilum mentions an  essential: the spacing of the axles MUST  match that of the coupling rods.  It won't run otherwise.   I don't know about building a chassis in plastic.   I am sure it is possible.    I hear that it is done regularly.   That said, I stick to metal.   If you are hesitant, read up on the subject in the Wild Swan cannon of books.    It can be done on the cheap, or at least without power tools, except a decent soldering iron.   Soldering takes a bit of experience, I won't deny.

 

I just opened a new kit, an 0-4-4T.   It is almost Irrevocably rigid.   I prefer a chassis that moves, for pick up and traction.    But if I am to have it with this one, I'll need to do some major work building beams, etc.   And with that I recommend to you that you read Mike Sharman's treatise on compensation.    A must have if you are going to build a chassis.  .  

[bluestag]

Doilum did offer a suggestion that demands consideration:  Figure out what the body needs by way of wheel spacing, and see if Premier offers something that would match.    That would be a fine solution if it did.   Even if you had to do a bit of filing to the chassis to make it fit under the body you have.

[doilum]

The debate over compensation and other methods of suspension could fill several volumes. Mike Sharman and co were working in the ultrascale world of P4 / S4 where tolerances were fine than a gnat's pony tail. Standard 7mm FS is much more accommodating , especially if you are running on well laid Peco track and points . My recommended first read would be John Ahern's book on locomotive construction. Real old school stuff but the basic principles still stand. The clever ideas can come later once you have the confidence of being able to get a simple chassis to run. Most of my twenty or so tank engines have a simple chassis driving the rear axle and allowing the centre axle a millimeter of "float". I'm not sure that would work on plastic bit the old-school method, assuming you have divided coupling rods, would be to put the centre axle half a millimeter above the centre line to avoid rocking on a localised high point.

In my collection I have one of the 85a models Hunslets. Whilst I have had to replace the coupling rods with brass substitutes, this all plastic loco still runs perfectly after around thirty years.

 

[doilum]

6 hours ago, bluestag said:

Doilum mentions an  essential: the spacing of the axles MUST  match that of the coupling rods.  It won't run otherwise.   I don't know about building a chassis in plastic.   I am sure it is possible.    I hear that it is done regularly.   That said, I stick to metal.   If you are hesitant, read up on the subject in the Wild Swan cannon of books.    It can be done on the cheap, or at least without power tools, except a decent soldering iron.   Soldering takes a bit of experience, I won't deny.

 

I just opened a new kit, an 0-4-4T.   It is almost Irrevocably rigid.   I prefer a chassis that moves, for pick up and traction.    But if I am to have it with this one, I'll need to do some major work building beams, etc.   And with that I recommend to you that you read Mike Sharman's treatise on compensation.    A must have if you are going to build a chassis.  .  

Good luck with the new kit. Despite their apparent simplicity these can be quite tricky. Getting the ballast right is essential if they are to sit right and if " rigid" large radius curves will be required.

I sold the G5 I built some years ago and now find myself possibly in need of another!

[bluestag]

5 hours ago, doilum said:

Good luck with the new kit. Despite their apparent simplicity these can be quite tricky. Getting the ballast right is essential if they are to sit right and if " rigid" large radius curves will be required.

I sold the G5 I built some years ago and now find myself possibly in need of another!

Thanks.   Happily it is not my first picnic.   I may be able to spring the drivers, and see to it the bogie moves about adequately.    The instructions prescribe springs on either side of the bogie pivot, but do not include any.   What I am supposed to use is a mystery.   Possibly I can find soft enough springs in a coupling set.

[bluestag]

6 hours ago, doilum said:

The debate over compensation and other methods of suspension could fill several volumes. Mike Sharman and co were working in the ultrascale world of P4 / S4 where tolerances were fine than a gnat's pony tail. Standard 7mm FS is much more accommodating , especially if you are running on well laid Peco track and points . My recommended first read would be John Ahern's book on locomotive construction. Real old school stuff but the basic principles still stand. The clever ideas can come later once you have the confidence of being able to get a simple chassis to run. Most of my twenty or so tank engines have a simple chassis driving the rear axle and allowing the centre axle a millimeter of "float". I'm not sure that would work on plastic bit the old-school method, assuming you have divided coupling rods, would be to put the centre axle half a millimeter above the centre line to avoid rocking on a localised high point.

In my collection I have one of the 85a models Hunslets. Whilst I have had to replace the coupling rods with brass substitutes, this all plastic loco still runs perfectly after around thirty years.

 

No doubt the debate could last a lifetime.   I am of the camp that some movement is desirable, but there certainly are those who insist that rigid get it done.   Slater's sprung hornblocks are not THAT  hard to fit, even I can do it.    They probably could be epoxied to plastic.

[doilum]

50 minutes ago, bluestag said:

Thanks.   Happily it is not my first picnic.   I may be able to spring the drivers, and see to it the bogie moves about adequately.    The instructions prescribe springs on either side of the bogie pivot, but do not include any.   What I am supposed to use is a mystery.   Possibly I can find soft enough springs in a coupling set.

Ball point pen spring?

[Miss Prism]

suggestion

[doilum]

1 hour ago, Miss Prism said:

suggestion

Guitar string offcuts?

[Miss Prism]

That would be fine. No idea what diameter you'll need though in 7mm. If you find that arrangement too stiff, you might want to consider a cantilever style, which will be a lot softer.

 

[bluestag]

3 hours ago, doilum said:

Ball point pen spring?

Almost certainly too stiff.

2 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

suggestion

CLAG!   Always good ideas.    I like that better than two coil springs, which are hard to judge.    The spring wire can be traded about until one gets the right tension.    How to secure it?   Much restraint will alter the spring rate.  Possibly a U shape, the tension of the U being enough to use the friction of the wire in the four holes?

Edited December 3, 2022 by bluestag

[Miss Prism]

19 minutes ago, bluestag said:

Possibly a U shape, the tension of the U being enough to use the friction of the wire in the four holes?

 

Sounds good.

 

[Coromar]

Thank you again for your help.

 

Premier Components supply a LNER J83 chassis with 7ft 6in x 8ft spacing. ( E1 is 7ft 6in x 7ft 9in) so perhaps this might be a way forward.

 

If anyone has any other ideas, then do please let me know.

 

Best wishes,

 

Paul

[bluestag]

8 hours ago, Coromar said:

Thank you again for your help.

 

Premier Components supply a LNER J83 chassis with 7ft 6in x 8ft spacing. ( E1 is 7ft 6in x 7ft 9in) so perhaps this might be a way forward.

 

If anyone has any other ideas, then do please let me know.

 

Best wishes,

 

Paul

I'd look closely at the body that you have.    3" is a lot if it falls in a splasher.    But if that is in the cab, and a little bit off is not going to be a problem, then by all means, go for it.     If you are leery of scratch building a chassis, this may be just the solution for you.    I can say with some confidence that the three axles will be on a line, straight across.   If the track you run on is reasonably well laid, it should chug along nicely.   Me?   I try to build flat track, but fail.   I like springing, it is only a question of fretting out the side frames, and a bit of soldering.   I have several half built locos that have yet to get their springs, and they run like champs.   There.   My commercial for floppy chassis.   Forge ahead.    You will glow with pride as it runs for the first time.

[mike hughes]

Is there anything in the ex ABS range? Forgot whose got that now

 

Michael

[Nick Holliday]

Albion Models did the LBSCR E1 and the range has now been taken over by Roxey Mouldings. It might be worth contacting them to see whether the chassis is available separately.r

[doilum]

As previously stated: measure YOUR body shell. If it is a scratch build or an old school kit it may already be plus or minus the odd millimeter. Assuming that it is close the three inch discrepancy is in the rear section where it puts the axle less than 2mm further back. Hopefully your model doesn't have beutifully tight rear cab splashers. if as I suspect, this started life as a three rail course loco, you may already have the space you need.