Kits for the Furness Railway (or other Pre Grouping) 0-4-0 tender locomotives?

[bigboyboris]

Does anyone know if there are or have been kits for any of the 0-4-0 tender locos utilised by the FR? Ideally in 4mm scale. 

 

I'm toying around with the idea of a layout loosely based on the joint Furness, Furness and Midland and LNWR goods yard at Carnforth, set some time in the 1890-1910 period. My understanding is one of the quirks of the FR is that it was one of the few companies still using 0-4-0 tender locos around that time, and that's something I'd definitely like to represent if I were to build this layout. But I've had no luck at all finding any existing kits for any of the five such loco classes I see listed on Wikipedia, so I'm hoping this forum might be able to help.

[Nick Holliday]

Not exactly a kit, but Newman Miniatures on Shapeways have 3D prints available of Coppernob, the preserved 0-4-0.

https://www.shapeways.com/product/7BSFEWTNF/00-scale-coppernob-loco-scratch-aid?optionId=65331383&li=shops
together with its tender. You’ll have to devise how to motorise it.

[Edwardian]

58 minutes ago, Nick Holliday said:

Not exactly a kit, but Newman Miniatures on Shapeways have 3D prints available of Coppernob, the preserved 0-4-0.

https://www.shapeways.com/product/7BSFEWTNF/00-scale-coppernob-loco-scratch-aid?optionId=65331383&li=shops
together with its tender. You’ll have to devise how to motorise it.

 

This is designed to use a motorised tender using a Tenshodo/Hanazono motor bogie, 24.5mm wheelbase, 10.5 diameter spoked wheels.

 

This is what was used for this printed model from the same designer, so gives an idea of how the arrangement would look on an essentially similar model:

 

 

The more weight you can cram into the tender, the stronger the engine will run. 

 

These are 'scratch-aids' and you should expect to do quite a bit of smoothing, finishing and detailing, but the process and the result is satisfying.

[ChrisN]

Not 0-4-0s but @Knuckles Sparkshot Custom Creations does a number of Furness loco 3D prints.

[bigboyboris]

Thank you for the recommendations. Seems like these two Shapeways products may also have potential as scratch aids:

https://www.shapeways.com/product/37WP8484G/0-4-0-inside-cylinder-tender-engine?optionId=162406719&li=marketplace

https://www.shapeways.com/product/6GZDQGDSF/0-4-0-tender-engine?optionId=140578939&li=related-items

[ian@stenochs]

Four wheeled engines are relatively simple to build from scratch so why not have  a go!

I described my 7mm one here https://westernthunder.co.uk/threads/simple-loco-to-fill-a-space.5028/

[TangoOscarMike]

5 hours ago, bigboyboris said:

Thank you for the recommendations. Seems like these two Shapeways products may also have potential as scratch aids:

https://www.shapeways.com/product/37WP8484G/0-4-0-inside-cylinder-tender-engine?optionId=162406719&li=marketplace

https://www.shapeways.com/product/6GZDQGDSF/0-4-0-tender-engine?optionId=140578939&li=related-items

 

As the designer of those two I can say:

 

• If you're after something realistic they won't do. But as something representative of the general shape and size, or as a placeholder for something more realistic, they might suit you.
• I'd be delighted if you used them as scratch aids.
• I'm willing to make variations of the basic elements - inside cylinder with a curved firebox and a high dome for example.
• I have for a while been tinkering with a design for a round-topped-firebox engine with an open cab.

 

Cheers

Tom

 

[Compound2632]

Rule 1 and all that but I'm somehow doubting that these little engines would have waddled up the main line to Carnforth. Where on the Furness did they work? The G&SWR ones seem to have worked various mineral branches in Ayrshire - Dalmellington &c.? - as far as I remember my reading of David L. Smith.

[ian@stenochs]

The G&SWR engines did spend most of their time on lightly laid and curvy colliery lines but to access these branches they had to use main lines too.  There are signalbox registers for Kilwinning junction which records rather a lot of movements and that is on the busy line between Ayr, Largs and Glasgow. 

They were also used extensively on shunting duties at Princes Pier and Ardrossan where the tender capacity helped keep them working longer without topping up unlike pugs with relatively small tanks and coal space.  

[MarcD]

The Furness 0-4-0's were used to shunt barrow docks in later years but never ventured much further afield. Carnforth might have had one of the 0-4-0ST's for yard shunting but I haven't seen one there in any photos.

Post 1910 the Furness deployed it's new 0-6-0T locos as yard shunters in carnforth.

Marc

[WFPettigrew]

Marc's right - all the evidence is that the FR 0-4-0s were confined to Barrow, working in and around the main yard, the docks and to the ironworks/steelworks.  All bar the final two of the final class (later dubbed A5s by some historians) were gone by or very swiftly after the turn of the century (Nos 27 and 28 went onto the duplicate list in 1914 and were withdrawn in 1918).   The FR tended to keep all its older and smaller locomtives close to Barrow (for example the original 4-4-0s may have survived til Grouping, just, but they tended to be used in the Barrow area in their latter days e.g. on services to Piel). 

 

But despite this evidence, there was nothing other than need and habit that kept them there.  They were taken off mainline goods work only because they weren't powerful enough but I know from having fired "A5" survivor FR 20 over many miles that they would certainly have had no problem getting to Carnforth as long as the load was within their capability. 

 

And while there is no photo evidence of a 0-4-0 shunting at Carnforth, equallty there is scant photographic evidence of anything else shunting at Carnforth either, until the Pettigrew 0-6-0Ts came along from 1910 which did attract the photographers.

 

So Rule 1 and all that..!?!  

 

Gavin at SCC has hinted that he might one day produce a model of an A5, and a 7mm GA drawing is also available if you can get a copy of The Great Survivor, the CRA/FRT book about Furness Railway Number 20. 

 

All the best

 

Neil 

 

 

 

[SteamAle]

I've searched the CRA photo database and there is only one entry that may be Carnforth!

1079    M00633.jpg    Miscellaneous    M00633.jpg        Carnforth ?    Furness Railway    Ulverston & Lancaster Railway    1900s    1900s        FR 0-4-0ST No 4 shunts, FR ? cattle wagons on left

When I get a chance I'll look up the image and ask 'the experts' (crchat group) if they think it is Carnforth.

[WFPettigrew]

If that's the image I think it is, then it's a Nunn photo, and may be Barrow. It's also interesting that the 0-4-0ST is clearly number 4, which is another example of the unreliability of the works of Mr Rush.

 

All the best Neil

 

 

[bigboyboris]

On 16/12/2022 at 14:13, TangoOscarMike said:

 

As the designer of those two I can say:

 

• If you're after something realistic they won't do. But as something representative of the general shape and size, or as a placeholder for something more realistic, they might suit you.
• I'd be delighted if you used them as scratch aids.
• I'm willing to make variations of the basic elements - inside cylinder with a curved firebox and a high dome for example.
• I have for a while been tinkering with a design for a round-topped-firebox engine with an open cab.

 

Cheers

Tom

 

That's very generous of you to offer, thank you. I feel I should mention that Carnforth and the Furness Railway are one of a few different potential layout ideas I'm considering, and I'm unlikely to be able to start for about a year in the best case - I wouldn't wish for you to do a load of work on my account and then not end up using it. I'd likely also have to consider how suitable the intended chassis are for EM conversion, as I think that's likely to be the gauge I end up working in. I will absolutely get in touch nearer the time if I ultimately choose to model the FR though, thank you! 

 

Thanks also to all those who have provided more prototype information about Carnforth - I have been going off an ordnance survey map, RCH diagram and Wikipedia page, mostly, so there's a lot I'm not yet aware of about the area! I think rule 1 stretches far enough for me that I'd be happy to run them, but it's a good factor to consider.

[SteamAle]

Have you got a copy of the definitve history of Carnforth by Phil Grosse?