BR traction instructor Posted December 18, 2022 Share Posted December 18, 2022 (edited) New project on the block just now is the building of 18 ex ironstone tipplers and 2 21T coal open rebuilds to create 8J22 Penmaenmawr to Hope St. (1977). A second consist…9 ex ironstone hoppers (inc 6 upgraded 51L kits already built, four to load with stone) and 5 diagram 1/161, 1/162 hoppers, a piped brakevan (already built), a couple of vanfits (already built) to combine with the one fitted hopper (fitted head) and a SLW 24 (063 or 091…already done) will form a Penmaenmawr to Sandhills 1977 working. This work will upgrade and more accurately portray these signature North Wales workings in P4 on Mostyn, in time for the Macclesfield exhibition in March (the full train of tipplers/21T rebuilds will take longer). The first steps include preparing the body sections for the 17 Peco/Parkside tippler kits ready for the folded/soldered Rumney etched underframes. David Ratcliffe has kindly provided us with his period notes of tippler types at Penmaenmawr. These combine with numerous period images to further inform our project. Vacuum braked 1/184 tipplers will form the fitted head, whilst a mix of unfitted 1/184, 1/183, 1/181, 1/180 tipplers will be marshalled in rear. Period WTT entries illustrate that 8J22 became 9J22 at Deal St nr Manchester Victoria, the loco running round to attach to the rear of the train for the move into Hope St stone terminal and consequently losing the brake force provided by the fitted head. BeRTIe Edited April 13 by BR traction instructor 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR traction instructor Posted December 21, 2022 Author Share Posted December 21, 2022 Razor saw and plastic jawed vice activity today to prepare the current collection of 28 tippler ends (3 kits to come) for the etched underframes… BeRTIe 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR traction instructor Posted December 29, 2022 Author Share Posted December 29, 2022 (edited) Matching period images/WTT entries with the notes provided above is informing our choice of stock. The first image below (photographer currently unknown) shows the tippler rake that we’re recreating for the Hope St 1977 working passing through Chester in the late 70s. The second brakevan made for a speedy reversal at Deal St in both directions. In 1977 there were two customers on site at Hope St receiving stone from Penmaenmawr. This later reduced to one and ex ironstone hoppers became the normal wagon type used. The second image by Dallam Dave shows that ex ironstone hoppers also worked out of Penmaenmawr in the 1970s (confirmed by the period notes of David Ratcliffe). We’re adding operational interest by using vanfits (as seen in one of our period images) and a fitted ex ironstone as a fitted head. Just one brakevan will be included in this working. The rake will ultimately include 5 1/161, 1/162 hoppers but these were getting rare during 1977 and had all been condemned by the end of the year. 1/163 and 1/166 hoppers will form the majority of the train… BeRTIe Edited March 17 by BR traction instructor 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR traction instructor Posted December 29, 2022 Author Share Posted December 29, 2022 (edited) Recreating the Sandhills ex ironstone hopper working has allowed a scratchbuilt (underframe but likely Mainline body) model of a diagram 1/161, 1/162 hopper to take a possible prototypical place on the layout. This was built by the late David ‘Nobber’ Goodwin (Barrowmore MRG) around 1991. It will be renumbered to reflect one of the last survivors, receive a stone load and be cosmetically reworked to fit into the train. The underframe subsequently turned out to be an incorrect 10’ version with the stretched and thus incorrect Mainline hopper atop…an unfortunate cul de sac. Another route to these distinctive hoppers is being evaluated currently. A modified Rumney etched underframe will be married to the body of a much reworked Mainline offering to see whether this 1980/90s RTR wagon might yet have a place on the layout (subsequently overtaken by a 3D hopper print route) considerable thinning of moulded plastic and replacement of clumsy detail will be fundamental. All dimensions of the hopper now being investigated after reading several accounts of dimensional compromises in the RTR body… BeRTIe Edited March 17 by BR traction instructor 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR traction instructor Posted January 4, 2023 Author Share Posted January 4, 2023 (edited) The best route to accurate tippler and ex ironstone hopper rakes for these trains is evolving daily. A 3D printed version of a 1/161, 1/162 hopper based on the scale diagram replicated in the new David Monk Steel HMRS hopper book and mounted on a modified Rumney etched underframe looks to be the best way forward just now. We also have a club member measuring/photographing the preserved example at Rocks by Rail to confirm prototypical details. Meanwhile a surprise find in a Penmaenmawr bound (likely ex Sandhills Redfern St) 1979 empty tippler consist photo are 2 rebuilt 21T coal opens (wagons 6 and 11 in this image)…we are looking to replicate these amongst the 1/180, 1/181, 1/183 and 1/184 variants… BeRTIe Edited January 30, 2023 by BR traction instructor 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR traction instructor Posted January 4, 2023 Author Share Posted January 4, 2023 (edited) Over the last couple of days the first 6 diagram 1/163, 1/166 ex ironstone hoppers have been similarly loaded with sealed polystyrene former (PVA layer)/stone and finished with weathering chalks/pastels to recreate the dusty appearance of the wagons. A length of wooden drink stirrer from Costa sits atop the polystyrene to ensure that the hopper sides bulge prototypically. The stone has dilute PVA and some IPA spotted over it to hold all in place. The image below shows the hoppers mid work…more stone and weathering powders yet to be added. The nearest hopper will be the third wagon of the fitted head (two vanfits will be marshalled onto this end of the consist, as the rest of the fitted head). A piped brakevan will be at the rear and the 1/161, 1/162 hoppers will be added as they are finished… BeRTIe Edited January 20, 2023 by BR traction instructor 12 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR traction instructor Posted January 10, 2023 Author Share Posted January 10, 2023 (edited) Waiting for the Tippler/mineral open/hopper test etches to arrive…the second Associated Octel demountable bromine tank is now under way (the last two of these were on their way to Crumps at Connahs quay for dismantling in Summer 1977). I was only responsible for the barrel & ends on the first, so have a few learning curves to negotiate in order to complete the second…Rumney etch B01 is a work in progress. The Conflat A’s had the distinctive taper to the ends of the buffer beams and this has already been cut with etch scissors pre the folding of the etch. A considerable fleet of Octel chemical tank variants (bromine (4), ethylene dibromide (2), chlorine (3) & anti knock compound) is under way for Mostyn, based on GA work’s drawings/detailed diagrams where possible, a preserved Hurst Nelson chlorine tank at Embsay was comprehensively photographed & measured…however, there will still be some reliance on RSL diagrams/image comparisons for two or three variants. 3D printing/bespoke etched underframes will be the preferred route… BeRTIe Edited January 10, 2023 by BR traction instructor 7 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR traction instructor Posted January 12, 2023 Author Share Posted January 12, 2023 (edited) The ex ironstone hopper workings out of Penmaenmawr during the 1970s are proving more problematic to pin down than those for the tipplers. We know that these hoppers were allocated in a pool there throughout the decade and certainly ran at least to Sandhills and Hope St at different times, we have various images of them doing this too. The Sandhills flow (to the short North docks branch off Redfern St yard) appears to change from hoppers to tipplers by late 1977 and by 1979 the destination of the train was changed to Redfern St. The LMR Northern Sectional Appendix (see below) shows the local instructions that related to the gravel chutes there as late as 1973 but by the December 1977 edition these instructions had disappeared, suggesting that the chutes had been taken out of use, tippler wagons then forming the train. We have one more printed source to check, a 1975 supplement to the 1973 Sec App (this contained no reference to any alteration re the North docks branch). Our conclusion at this point has to be that the chutes were out of use by Autumn 1977 at the latest (Mostyn is based in Summer 1977) when the new Sec App was prepared/printed. Meanwhile, some of the underframe etches for the tippler consist arrived yesterday (2 x 9ft wheelbase unfitted for diagrams 1/180, 1/181 or 1/183; 4 x 10ft fitted for diagram 1/184 and 2 x 12ft unfitted for the rebuilt 21T mineral opens). These will be worked on alongside the demountable bromine Conflat A above and a short rake may appear in time for our next outing in March. First onto the operating table are a 1/180 and 1/181. These will require the slightly taller body compared with the 1/183 & 1/184… BeRTIe Edited March 17 by BR traction instructor 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
montyburns56 Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 Wow, that detachable Bromine tank is impressive. I've been fascinated by them ever since I came across this picture of one on Flickr. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR traction instructor Posted January 12, 2023 Author Share Posted January 12, 2023 …there is a second one on the way Monty, very individual wagons/loads. BeRTIe 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR traction instructor Posted January 13, 2023 Author Share Posted January 13, 2023 (edited) Underframe work for a while now. A jig to help with soldering the axlebox backing plates accurately. The 2 21T mineral rebuilds, we will be using a Lot 3244 and a Lot 3427 identity, combined an underframe from a 24 1/2T mineral open with a new 21T body and were originally plated at 25T GLW. Some had 10 leaf springs and roller bearings (others retained oil axleboxes). Thankyou to Justin at Rumney models for offering to produce this combination for us. BeRTIe Edited January 30, 2023 by BR traction instructor 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR traction instructor Posted January 14, 2023 Author Share Posted January 14, 2023 Label clips, wagon plates (not quite an MDO identity but close), spring stops, solebars etc… BeRTIe 10 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR traction instructor Posted January 15, 2023 Author Share Posted January 15, 2023 (edited) Also joining the Mostyn stock roster for Macclesfield will be a couple of lime weathered Covhops (Bill Bedford resin/etched kits) collecting Perlite from Mostyn dock and 3 sheeted ex ironstone hoppers loaded with slate powder. The 13T hoppers won’t be making the journey as they had already disappeared by the Summer 1977 date of the layout… BeRTIe Edited January 16, 2023 by BR traction instructor 9 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37403 Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 Very interesting modelling. Have you got a chosen route for the motive power of choice? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR traction instructor Posted January 15, 2023 Author Share Posted January 15, 2023 (edited) …the trips that will convey this traffic all exist already, the allocated locos could be 24, 25 or 40. On the Barrowmore MRG website there is a Mostyn gallery that illustrates some of these trip workings. The Sandhills conditional stone working is the only new one and this will have a SLW 24 rostered to it. BeRTIe Edited January 15, 2023 by BR traction instructor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR traction instructor Posted January 15, 2023 Author Share Posted January 15, 2023 (edited) This Hymac 590C started life as a white metal kit but the parts were so heavy that the complete digger wouldn’t be a realistic proposition as a wagon load (we work on around 50g per wagon). Some resin casting of the heaviest components followed, this reduced the all up weight to a more realistic figure. Careful positioning /angling of the jib was required to fit the loaded wagon within the loading gauge. The large white metal bucket was sliced in two to create two more realistic sized smaller ones, chained to the wagon each side of the jib… BeRTIe Edited January 18, 2023 by BR traction instructor 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 On 12/01/2023 at 18:56, montyburns56 said: Wow, that detachable Bromine tank is impressive. I've been fascinated by them ever since I came across this picture of one on Flickr. Ah - Hayle Harbour of happy memory; (the inset track only recently having been removed). CJI. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR traction instructor Posted January 15, 2023 Author Share Posted January 15, 2023 (edited) …looks like one of the FW Berk ones (on a lowfit) that served Stratford (E. London) and St Albans. We have images of the Octel ones (on conflat A’s) serving Diss too. BeRTIe Edited January 15, 2023 by BR traction instructor 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 4 hours ago, BR traction instructor said: …looks like one of the FW Berk ones (on a lowfit) that served Stratford (E. London) and St Albans. We have images of the Octel ones (on conflat A’s) serving Diss too. BeRTIe Agreed, tank number FWB2. CJI. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR traction instructor Posted January 15, 2023 Author Share Posted January 15, 2023 (edited) …we followed the St Albans trail…the demountable tanks used to be transferred to a road lorry in Watford jnc yard…to a nearby factory producing fire blankets etc (containing some of this bromine) but disposing of its waste in old gravel pits nearby. The area of the gravel pits was subsequently sold for housing development but its water supply was contaminated by the buried waste from the factory. The St Albans historical society has a detailed account of one of the worst bromide pollution incidents in this country. The health & safety at work act was developed partly as a consequence of this event. Following the Stratford trail was no less interesting. We uncovered reports of acids on site that were so powerful that only wooden casks could contain them. The fire brigade responded to one incident and ran out hoses to create a supply/dilute a leak but the acid completely dissolved the hoses and their brass fittings. There was an island in the nearby River Lea that was out of bounds to everyone. BeRTIe Edited January 16, 2023 by BR traction instructor 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR traction instructor Posted January 16, 2023 Author Share Posted January 16, 2023 (edited) Fine detail work today was helped by raising the workpiece to eye level. The heat resistant clamp held by the vice is a Coffmann (Branchlines) right angle version…more spring stops, label clips, wagon plates & solebars today…great modelling light in the sunshine… BeRTIe Edited January 16, 2023 by BR traction instructor 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR traction instructor Posted January 17, 2023 Author Share Posted January 17, 2023 More underframe detailing today, this time on the 1/180 tippler… BeRTIe 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR traction instructor Posted January 18, 2023 Author Share Posted January 18, 2023 (edited) First of the current build of five onto its feet today is the Conflat A/bromine demountable. A silly oversight was the spring stops, I already knew that the round pattern was required but still managed to fit the open frame type… BeRTIe Edited January 18, 2023 by BR traction instructor 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR traction instructor Posted January 19, 2023 Author Share Posted January 19, 2023 The first 21T rebuilt mineral underframe is now on its feet too… BeRTIe 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR traction instructor Posted January 20, 2023 Author Share Posted January 20, 2023 (edited) …and then there were three of the five on their feet, 1/180 & 1/181 tipplers to follow… BeRTIe Edited January 20, 2023 by BR traction instructor 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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