SOLVED: Lights on Rapido class 28 (Bachmann decoder)

[rogerzilla]

I fitted my preferred Bachmann Next18 decoder (because of the brake feature) and running is absolutely fine.  However, when running Bo-first, red taillights are on at the front with no lights at the rear.  When running Co-first, white marker lights are on at the front with no lights at the rear.

 

The loco manual says F5 turns tailights on or off, but it does nothing (my guess is that this only refers to the ESU sound decoder that is an option on new models).

 

Any ideas?  I've run through all the function keys but can't get the lights to work conventionally.

 

Edited December 31, 2022 by rogerzilla
Fixed issue

[PaulCheffus]

Hi

 

I’ve fitted the same in mine. Mine has directional headlights on F0 and tail lights on F1 or F2 depending on which end of the loco you are looking at. F2 for the taillight causes an issue though and the loco won’t move whilst F2 is on which I think is down the brake function as it appears to be on F2. Reading the manual for the decoder I think it’s possible to put the taillights on F1 and also to be directional but I’ve not had time to try this yet.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[WIMorrison]

From the manual which *may* affect the DCC operation of the rear lights

 

THE MAGIC WAND

 

So, you might ask, what’s the black plastic stick for? If you’re a DCC user, you can skip over this bit. If your layout still uses good, old fashioned DC control, please pay attention.When running ‘light engine’, the Class 28 needs to show white lights at the front and red lights at the rear. When hauling a train, the red light is carried by the very last vehicle in the train and the locomotive’s red marker lights are off.

This is easy to replicate with DCC but less easy to do in DC form. Some manufacturers use switches under the locomotive to achieve that but we’ve gone for a snazzy magnetic switch that’s hidden under the roof fan. With track power applied, wave the wand over the fan and the red lights will turn off or on.

Two thing to note:

1. This will only work when track power is applied.

2 Don’t wave the wand over any other part of the model for the magnet will pull it off the track. You have been warned!

 

 

 

 

[rogerzilla]

I think the wand only works on the rather large DC blanking plug which, of course, I removed.

 

With F0 and F1, I can get taillights and headlights together at the Co-end (!) or taillights at both ends when running Bo-first.

 

I think I'll have to try it on DC next, in case the Bo-end taillight and headlight wiring has been mixed up at the factory.

 

The brake button can be reassigned, I think, but it's F2 on all my other locos except for a factory DCC Farish 24 which has it on F7.

Edited December 29, 2022 by rogerzilla

[Kaput]

You'll need to remap the functions to control the lights properly.

 

100 times easier with some sort of computer connection to use decoder pro.

 

Ignore the model's manual because it annoyingly doesn't actually say anything useful for setting up decoders, even just a table of which light was connected to which function output would handy.

[PaulCheffus]

Hi

 

This is the manual for the Zimo decoders and the Bachmann decoder is basically the MX618N18

http://www.zimo.at/web2010/documents/DecoderSmall_151215_E.pdf

 

The manual supplied with the loco is irrelevant in this case as this is a non DCC loco that has been fitted with a Bachmann decoder.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

Edited December 29, 2022 by PaulCheffus

[rogerzilla]

I wonder why it's so difficult?  With all my other N gauge diesels and these Bachmann/Zimo decoders (6 pin or Next18) the lights Just Work.

[Michael Hodgson]

2 hours ago, rogerzilla said:

when running Bo-first, red taillights are on at the front with no lights at the rear. 

When running Co-first, white marker lights are on at the front with no lights at the rear.

 

 

That's a terminology I've never heard used before !

And I don't think it's something you could say about any other class of loco 😄

 

Was the train called the Bondor if the other end was leading ?

[rogerzilla]

Co is no.1 end in normal BR diesel-speak, because it has the cooler group (and big roof fan).

[rogerzilla]

Update: it's fine on DC with the supplied blanking plate, so no wiring fault.

 

With the decoder refitted, I tried both the directional lighting examples from the Zimo manual.  The second scheme gives the following result:

 

F1 off: no lights at the trailing end, white lights at the Co- end when leading, red lights at the Bo- end when leading.

 

F1 on: white lights at BOTH ends with the Co- end leading, red lights at BOTH ends with the Bo- end leading.

 

F2 turns on the red lights at the leading end when Bo- is leading (!) but is also the brake button so I don't really want it to affect the lights at all.

 

Can anyone work out from this what decoder outputs the lights are on, and what on earth to set the CVs to?!

Edited December 30, 2022 by rogerzilla

[PaulCheffus]

Hi 

 

Mine worked from the start with the headlights directional on F0 and the taillights on F1 (CO end) and F2 (BO end).
 

Try doing a reset on the decoder first to see if you can get the same as the above.

 

When I get the chance I will take a proper look at the manual and see if I can work out what needs doing with the CVs to get F1 to operate the tail lights so they are directional.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[jamesed]

Assuming you have 4 lights (2 x white headlight and 2 x red rear light) and you want to control them all individually then I think this is what you need to do.

 

cv124=128 which will turn off SUSI control on F3 and F4

cv61=97 which will give you the Zimo optional mapping without the left shift.

 

cv33=4 which should put one headlamp on F1

cv34=8 which should put the other headlamp on F2

cv35=16 which should put one rear red light on F3

cv36=32 which should put the other red light on F4

 

cv37=0 removes the previous output assignment to F3

cv38=0 ditto re F4

cv39=0 ditto re F5

 

cv309=5 which reassigns F5 as the break key

 

Note that this removes all directional lighting functions (F0 is now not used) and gives you an individual function key to switch each light on or off as you choose.   If you want a different configuration that can all be achieved with appropriate mapping  - just post back with exactly what you want and I'll try to make that work for you. 

 

[rogerzilla]

Thanks all!  I'll try a reset on a programming track in the morning and then come back.  I'd be happy with auto-directional white lights at the front and red lights at the trailing end for now (even though it's wrong for pulling a train).

 

I really need to get lighting functions off F2 as it's the brake.  The CV for F2 (36, I think) is set to 8 (1000) which shouldn't operate any lights, but it does.

Edited December 30, 2022 by rogerzilla

[Nigelcliffe]

Or, once you've established which function output controls which light (not hard*), you could set up any lighting scheme required with "Swiss Mapping", with full control of direction behaviour, which key does what, etc, etc.   Explained how in my blog, link below.  

 

58 minutes ago, rogerzilla said:

I really need to get lighting functions off F2 as it's the brake.  The CV for F2 (36, I think) is set to 8 (1000) which shouldn't operate any lights, but it does.

 

CV36=8 indicates that function output 2 is operated by the F2 key.  

 

 

- Nigel

[rogerzilla]

I have reset the decoder on the programming track.  The lighting behaviour is back to what it was, i.e. not very useful!

 

On the Class 28, Co is no.1 end and Bo is no.2 end, if it helps.

 

F0 only gives lights at the leading end but these are white with Co leading and red with Bo leading.  Initially I thought this could be a wiring fault, with the headight and taillight wires swapped at the Bo end, but lighting works fine on DC.

 

F1 adds red taillights at the Co end regardless of running direction.

 

F2 adds red taillights at the Bo end regardless of running direction.  If Bo is leading and F2 is pressed, the taillights (which are already on if F0 is pressed) get brighter.

 

I just want normal (light engine) directional lights on F0 and no lighting functions on F1 or F2, but I do need to keep the braking function on F2.

 

I have the same Next18 decoder in an EFE Class 17 and it just works!

 

I'm using a Bachmann Dynamis controller, so setting CVs is a bit more of a faff than using a PC interface.

Edited December 31, 2022 by rogerzilla

[Nigelcliffe]

1 minute ago, rogerzilla said:

I have reset the decoder on the programming track.  The lighting behaviour is back to what it was, i.e. not very useful!

 

F0 only gives lights at the leading end but these are white with Co leading and red with Bo leading.  Initially I thought this could be a wiring fault, with the headight and taillight wires swapped at the Bo end, but lighting works fine on DC.

 

F1 adds red taillights at the Co end regardless of running direction.

 

F2 adds red taillights at the Bo end regardless of running direction.  If Bo is leading and F2 is pressed, the taillights (which are already on if F0 is pressed) get brighter.

 

I just want normal (light engine) directional lights on F0 and no lighting functions on F1 or F2, but I do need to keep the braking function on F2.

 

I have the same Next18 decoder in an EFE Class 17 and it just works!

 

With default function mapping and the behaviour reported...

 

F0 key is directional,  so there is: 

      F0forward ->  CoWhite and will be on the "front light" wire 

      FoReverse -> BoRed, and on the "rear light" wire

F1 key -> CoRed and on the FA1 wire  

F2 key -> BoRed and on the FA2 wire

 

Your report from the function keys is missing BoWhite....   And the BoRed appears to be on two different wires....

 

I'm suspecting a wiring fault at the Bo-end of the loco,  there is no report of a key to work the BoWhite light, and the BoRed is on two different wires, AND it changes brightness.   This is not sensible for default wiring. 

 

 

I think it should be FoReverse ->  BoWhite on the "rear light" wire, and that's the wiring fault.  Whether it's "wires" or a component connected the wrong way round on a PCB, or similar, is not clear to me.      If the BoWhite was working on FoReverse (for default), then arranging the lights to how you want it would be a doddle.  

 

 

 

 

- Nigel

 

[rogerzilla]

If it's miswired, I'm not sure why it works perfectly on DC, with white leading and red trailing in either running direction.  The only way there could be a wiring fault AND correct DC running is if the DC blanking plug, which also contains a reed switch to turn off the taillights, reverses the red/white connections at the Bo end, and that seems unlikely.

 

The white lights at the Bo end can be enabled by messing about with CVs, but I haven't found a combination that doesn't give white lights at both ends simultaneously.

 

I'll try jamesed's CVs and see if they do the trick, although I really wanted simple lighting on F0 only.

[rogerzilla]

Ok, jamesed's CVs do the following:

 

F0 (which should be inactive) turns on red lights at the leading end, whichever that is.

 

F1-F4 do nothing at all.

 

F5 works as the brake.

[rogerzilla]

Update: it now works, although I have no idea why.

 

I removed the decoder to photograph the wiring connections, then refitted it.  Plopped it back on the programming track and reset CV8=8 again.  This wasn't the first time I'd refitted the decoder and I have done several factory resets (which all worked, setting ID to 3 and removing my previous changes).

 

I now have directional headlights on F0 and switchable taillights on F1 and F2, which is probably how it should work out of the box.  I made CV309=7 to put the brake on F7, same as my Farish 24.

 

Conclusion: it could have been dirt or a bad contact/short in the decoder socket.  These Next18 decoders are very small and off-centre, although they can only go in one way.

 

Thanks for all the help.

 

Taillights on (light engine):

 

 

Taillights off (pulling a train):

 

 

Absolutely no expense spared on scenery.

 

Headcode discs next!

Edited December 31, 2022 by rogerzilla

[Nigelcliffe]

Glad its now working as it should out of box.  

 

Function mapping to whatever combination you want for lighting and brake control is now pretty straightforwards, either using traditional mapping (some limits, but think it will do what you requested earlier) or Swiss Mapping (will do just about anything).   

 

Simple traditional mapping:

Move the Reds to F1 and make them directional: 

CV35=12  (both reds now active on FnKey1)

CV36=0  (remove red from FnKey2)

CV127= 2   (FA1, Co-Red active in reverse only)

CV128= 1   (FA2, Bo-Red active in forwards only)

 

Swiss Mapping (can offer more, such as red-all round for parked loco), see my blog, in signature block.  

 

 

- Nigel