Cossall Brick PO wagon

[Peter Eaton]

Born in Ilkeston I have always wondered if there was a local Cossall colliery PO wagon.

We have a nice Manors 00 wagon again an Ilkeston Colliery.

My good friend ''Dave'' has amazingly just found a photo in a issue of backtrack.

Would any one else by chance have seen or know of any more details on suck a wagon please.

We at present though a great start not a lot to go on,

Thanks'

Peter

 

 

[Aire Head]

I can't guarantee a result but HMRS have a lot of images I'd PO wagons so might be worth seeing if it appears?

[Compound2632]

There's no entry in the Lightmoor Index: 

https://lightmoor.co.uk/BDLpdf_files/Private_Owner_Wagons_Index.pdf

so it's not in any of the regular PO wagon books.

 

Neither is there anything in the HMRS photo collection.

 

Which is odd, because I've got a nagging feeling I have seen a photo of a wagon of this firm.

 

What is the attribution of the photo in Backtrack?

[bmb5dnp1]

5 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

There's no entry in the Lightmoor Index: 

https://lightmoor.co.uk/BDLpdf_files/Private_Owner_Wagons_Index.pdf

so it's not in any of the regular PO wagon books.

 

Neither is there anything in the HMRS photo collection.

 

Which is odd, because I've got a nagging feeling I have seen a photo of a wagon of this firm.

 

What is the attribution of the photo in Backtrack?

 

 

Hello 

      The photograph was taken by H C Casserley in 1936 at Aylesbury. I've been searching for photographs of these wagons for years and also have a niggling feeling that I'd seen another some years ago. The kids had dragged some of my old magazines out so it was very fortunate that I noticed this one !

 

Dave

Edited January 11, 2023 by bmb5dnp1
Clarification

[Wickham Green too]

Could it be that this isn't actually a Cossall wagon - i.e. the hidden letters aren't 'CO' ? ..... would explain the absence from the indices - though, obviously it's somewhere near Nottingham.

[bmb5dnp1]

2 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

Could it be that this isn't actually a Cossall wagon - i.e. the hidden letters aren't 'CO' ? ..... would explain the absence from the indices - though, obviously it's somewhere near Nottingham.

Hello,

     I'm 99% certain that it's Cossall as everything fits, ie a colliery with a brick yard near Nottingham. The spelling of the text we can see (SSALL) is uncommon and the part of the wagon we can't see seems the right size for 2 letters. in addition, I can't can't find any other name like it in the Nottingham area (although that could be due to incompetence !). Also, I'm pretty sure that I've seen another photograph years ago of a similar wagon lurking in the background but sadly can't remember where.

 

Dave

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

Could it be that this isn't actually a Cossall wagon - i.e. the hidden letters aren't 'CO' ? ..... would explain the absence from the indices - though, obviously it's somewhere near Nottingham.

 

One has to bear in mind that the index is only of wagons covered in the literature - which barely scrapes the surface. There are vast numbers of wagons the existence of which is known, e.g. from the railway companies' PO wagon registers, but for which there is no photographic evidence.

 

However, Cossall Colliery was near Ilkeston (hence the OP's interest, I gather), served by a short branch from Ilkeston Junction, on the Nottinghamshire side of the Erewash.

 

https://maps.nls.uk/view/114589901

 

Checking the Durham Mining Museum's database, the Cossall Colliery Co.'s registered office was in Nottingham, so that would account for the address on the wagon.

 

There's no sign of a brickworks directly associated with the colliery on this 1913 survey, although there was one just to the north, served by the Babbington branch:

 

https://maps.nls.uk/view/114589886

 

However, the 1937 survey does show a "briquette works":

 

https://maps.nls.uk/view/114589904

https://maps.nls.uk/view/114589889

 

(Some but not all revisions of the 25" maps from the mid-30s onward omit railway trackwork, showing only structures and boundaries.)

 

On the third plank up, the word partly obscured by the engine's smokebox saddle is evidently COAL; could the word on the door be BRIQUETTES?

 

Is this one of @Rail-Online's (as collector and purveyor, not as photographer)? If so, that might explain why I think I've seen it before.

Edited January 11, 2023 by Compound2632

[bmb5dnp1]

18 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

One has to bear in mind that the index is only of wagons covered in the literature - which barely scrapes the surface. There are vast numbers of wagons the existence of which is known, e.g. from the railway companies' PO wagon registers, but for which there is no photographic evidence.

 

However, Cossall Colliery was near Ilkeston (hence the OP's interest, I gather), served by a short branch from Ilkeston Junction, on the Nottinghamshire side of the Erewash.

 

https://maps.nls.uk/view/114589901

 

Checking the Durham Mining Museum's database, the Cossall Colliery Co.'s registered office was in Nottingham, so that would account for the address on the wagon.

 

There's no sign of a brickworks directly associated with the colliery on this 1913 survey, although there was one just to the north, served by the Babbington branch:

 

https://maps.nls.uk/view/114589886

 

However, the 1937 survey does show a "briquette works":

 

https://maps.nls.uk/view/114589904

https://maps.nls.uk/view/114589889

 

(Some but not all revisions of the 25" maps from the mid-30s onward omit railway trackwork, showing only structures and boundaries.)

 

On the third plank up, the word partly obscured by the engine's smokebox saddle is evidently COAL; could the word on the door be BRIQUETTES?

 

Is this one of @Rail-Online's (as collector and purveyor, not as photographer)? If so, that might explain why I think I've seen it before.

Hello,

    Thanks for your reply and interest and research on this. This link mentions a brick yard linked to at least the colliery company, - http://www.dmm.org.uk/company/c1019.htm

 

The word on the door has been bothering me too, I wonder if it could be BLOCKS or that the wording on that level is COAL BRICKS. BRICKS. The location is interesting too since there was a LMS station in Aylesbury at the time and the route from Ilkeston Junction to the GC line would be a bit convoluted, unless of course the ultimate destination was elsewhere on the LNER, Metropolitan or GWR. 

 

I'm sorry but I don't know the full provenance of the photograph. Some years ago, I discussed producing a wagon in Cossall livery with a local model shop but I couldn't remember where I'd seen a photograph. It was only when my kids (unruly toddlers !)  randomly grabbed some old magazines from somewhere that I saw this photograph.

 

Dave

Edited January 11, 2023 by bmb5dnp1
Bad formatting

[bécasse]

Briquettes are almost certainly reformed coal dust, little used in Britain but very common in at least parts of continental Europe. The SNCF used to use them as loco fuel.

[Peter Eaton]

The wagon has arrived it seems !

 

https://malcsmodels.co.uk/products/peco-cossall-7-plank-wagon-malcs-models-exclusive-n-gauge?syclid=cjgagriusvis73ats8c0&utm_campaign=emailmarketing_131081699380&utm_medium=email&utm_source=shopify_email

 

Shame still to wait for a 00 wagon, then there's a 0 gauge 

[Enterprisingwestern]

4 minutes ago, Peter Eaton said:

The wagon has arrived it seems !

 

https://malcsmodels.co.uk/products/peco-cossall-7-plank-wagon-malcs-models-exclusive-n-gauge?syclid=cjgagriusvis73ats8c0&utm_campaign=emailmarketing_131081699380&utm_medium=email&utm_source=shopify_email

 

Shame still to wait for a 00 wagon, then there's a 0 gauge 

 

That's interesting because the word partly obscured on the door of your prototype picture is BLOCKS, so it would seem Malc and Peco have been working from a different source.

 

Mike.