Indicating point direction on control panel?

[Tomathee]

Hi folks, apologies for a second thread in the same day, it's a different layout and query. I'm beginning to start blocking off a section of track ahead of scenic work (tunnel under a hill), this will cover one of the points and become almost impossible to see which direction it's set. It is connected to a Peco side mounted motor and a Gaugemaster GM500 to switch the frog polarity. This is switched by a miniature toggle switch on a piece of board with the track plan drawn on so I know which switch relates to which point(s). I think what I need is some sort of light either side of the switch to show which direction it is set to, but I have no idea on if it's possible with what I have and what I'd need/how to do it. One thing I thought might be of use is the GM500 can also switch signals, so if that can be utilised for the board rather than a model signal as intended in the instructions.

 

Hope that makes sense, I was beginning to grasp some of the wiring knowledge needed but this area is completely new. If anything could be better explained or pictures needed please let me know and I'll update the question,

Thanks 

[5BarVT]

Problem with a GM500 (I think, as I don’t use them!) is that they don’t  switch until a loco enters the frog area.  By that stage it’s too late!

Paul.

EDIT I was wrong, GM500 operates in parallel to the solenoid point motor not as a frog juicer.

Edited February 27, 2023 by 5BarVT
Correcting facts!

[RAF96]

The problem is if you link an indicator lamp to the switch it only tells you which switch selection you made. To get a true points position indication the point (or point motor) needs a switch that lights the lamp once the point has thrown. Some point motors have such switching built in.

[ikcdab]

As said above, you have two options.  Either you repeat the switch position, which only shows you the instruction sent to the point motor, or you have some form of feedback from the point to show that it has answered the point motor. On a model railway, I suggest that the former is perfectly adequate. I do this on my own layout by having a rotary switch aligned on the track diagram so that the pointer on the switch knob aligns with the route selected. If you had a multiway rotary switch (very cheap on eBay) you could wire in a led as well.

If you want to do the latter, which could be much more fun, I would look to fix up a small slide switch that is operated by the point tiebar.  Use a spdt switch and each side can operate a led on your control panel.

Does that make sense? If not, let me know and I'll draw up a diagram this evening.

I don't know the GM500 at all but an ordinary dpdt relay (again, very cheap on eBay) would do this job very well and replace the GM500 which look like an expensive solution. 

Ian

[rab]

Apologies if this takes the thread off topic slightly,

but I'd been thinking about this for my layout. 

 

My problem, as l see it, is that I'm using Kato points

so can't use the point motor to light the LED.

 

i had thought of taking power from the track

on the side being switched,  (opposite the toe),

but, as I understand it, if I reverse the supply

(to run a loco in the opposite direction)

the LED would not light.

 

i guess this could be overcome by using ordinary bulbs

(eg: grain of wheat), instead of LEDs

 

 

[ikcdab]

6 minutes ago, rab said:

Apologies if this takes the thread off topic slightly,

but I'd been thinking about this for my layout. 

 

My problem, as l see it, is that I'm using Kato points

so can't use the point motor to light the LED.

 

i had thought of taking power from the track

on the side being switched,  (opposite the toe),

but, as I understand it, if I reverse the supply

(to run a loco in the opposite direction)

the LED would not light.

 

i guess this could be overcome by using ordinary bulbs

(eg: grain of wheat), instead of LEDs

 

 

LEDs are far preferable and you could fix your problem by using a miniature relay.

[rab]

3 hours ago, ikcdab said:

LEDs are far preferable and you could fix your problem by using a miniature relay.

Sounds interesting, @ikcdab. Could you explain how to do this please.

[ikcdab]

1 hour ago, rab said:

Sounds interesting, @ikcdab. Could you explain how to do this please.

I use these minature relays - ebay link

 

This is the diagram:

 

 

I'm not quite sure how your voltage from the track works, all you say is "taking power from the track on the side being switched". So I assume you know what you are doing there. The relay doesn't mind what polarity the input is, so that gets over your direction issue. The LEDs are powered from a separate supply that is a fixed polarity. The voltage of this does not matter, you just need to size the resistor accordingly. I use a 1K resistor for 12v or a 270 ohm for 5v.

When there is no voltage from the track, the relay is open and one LED is lit. When there is voltage from the track, the relay closes and the other LED lights.

Hope this makes sense!

Ian

Edited January 29, 2023 by ikcdab

[Knapdale]

I don’t know if this will help, but I’ve used these switches for points located in a tunnel. 
 

https://www.bclstore.co.uk/product-page/coil-point-motor-switch-with-indicator-mimic-display

[DCB]

A miniature (or Sub Miniature ) micro switch with a reasonably long lever bearing on the point tie bar will operate a warning light / LED.  to show which way the points are set.   I use them for frog polarity switching with very few problems. 

 

[RFS]

On 28/01/2023 at 20:46, 5BarVT said:

Problem with a GM500 (I think, as I don’t use them!) is that they don’t  switch until a loco enters the frog area.  By that stage it’s too late!

Paul.

 

The GM500 is a relay switch that operates at the same time as the motor.  You're thinking of the DCC80 "frog juicer" switch which behaves as you describe. 

[5BarVT]

7 minutes ago, RFS said:

 

The GM500 is a relay switch that operates at the same time as the motor.  You're thinking of the DCC80 "frog juicer" switch which behaves as you describe. 

Thanks RFS, I was talking rubbish!  Earlier post corrected too.

Paul.