A Family TT Adventure

[andrewshimmin]

2 hours ago, Ben B said:

I really like this- sometimes it is just fun to have trains whizzing around a board! I got rid of a box full of Triang TT just before this new track hit the market (like you, I'd not had any luck trying to run the trains on ancient, failing Triang and Wrenn track), I'm wishing I'd hung on a bit now, seeing the success you're having with the new stuff.  Looking forward to seeing this develope! 

 

Thanks Ben. In time I'm planning (hoping) to build a couple of more "proper model" layouts (a small northern terminus based vaguely on the joint lines like the  CLC/Birkenhead Railway in the Liverpool/Manchester area, and a branch terminus based on Coniston). But a nice oval for actually running the trains is great for our entertainment, it's good practice for the skills - woodwork, wiring, scenics (me remembering and the kids learning) and it slides under the sofa, so it can be operational in seconds (the others will need stowing away as we don't have a space for them to be "out").

 

A shame about your Triang TT. If you wanted to get some again the 3mm Society can oblige at extremely cheap prices!

[andrewshimmin]

Next stage will be properly writing it up. I am after some recommendations:

 

 

[Tartaruga]

On 22/05/2023 at 10:08, andrewshimmin said:

The Merchant Navy looks great on the SR train but can't really haul more than two carriages comfortably at the moment, it seems to lack adhesion. It just about got round with three.

I've had the same problem with my MN and also Castle, whereas my Jinty can pull almost anything. Does anybody know of a way around this? I was hoping my MN would pull a decent rake. One of the reasons I wanted a smaller scale.

[andrewshimmin]

12 hours ago, Tartaruga said:

I've had the same problem with my MN and also Castle, whereas my Jinty can pull almost anything. Does anybody know of a way around this? I was hoping my MN would pull a decent rake. One of the reasons I wanted a smaller scale.

 

I'm hoping a good clean and oil of the MN, plus stuffing the body with lead, will help!

The carriages can also do with the bearings to be cleaned and oiled.

I plan to do this soon - will report back!

[TT100 Diesels]

6 hours ago, andrewshimmin said:

 

I'm hoping a good clean and oil of the MN, plus stuffing the body with lead, will help!

The carriages can also do with the bearings to be cleaned and oiled.

I plan to do this soon - will report back!

 

I have found that triang axles and wheels can result in significant drag. Cleaning and oiling does help but its amazing how quick it all seems to gum up again. I came across this on my 16" radius tight curves that feed my fiddle yard on High Peak Junction. It was disappointing because my triang 31s and locos with 31 based power bogies slipped to a stand hauling 12 triang minerals and a brake van, my standard length freight train.

 

Even when adding weight to them, I experienced significant wheelspin and loss if traction. 

 

Unfortunately for me, that has meant re wheeling triang stuff with pin pint axles in brass bearings. However, since Lincoln Locos centre motor chassis and all wheel drive, locos such as my 25's have no problem with standard triang wagons on the very tight curves.

 

The other issue that does not help is on the triang 31 based mechs I had to open out the back to backs to allow running through peco HOm point flangeways. I think the wider b2b of the thick flanged triang wheels run tight round the 16" rad curves (in a sense, a bit like gauge narrowing). Just another straw on the camels back ! 

 

Hope my experience is helpful.

 

[andrewshimmin]

I am trying to work out what my sections should be. I want maximum operational control, so I prefer to have lots of sections rather than rely on points to switch power on and off to different lines. At the moment my thoughts are looking something like this:

 

It ends up with lots of short section, mainly because of my baseboard joints - I prefer to wire up either side of the joint at a separate section. It will be annoying for wiring up, of course. But that's a one off job. Whereas every time I operate it, if I stick in long sections, I will curse myself that I didn't split them up, so I could attach another loco to the back of a train to haul it away while leaving the loco that brought it, for example.

This is already 20 sections - and I could add three more if I get more pedantic with the middle sidings...

 

The plan is still to do with with toggle switches on the baseboard local to the track sections for this layout. I will solder the power wires direct to the track - it's what I've always done. I will also probably have a common return although I've not done that recently, so I might decide to stick with separate returns.

I will play and ponder a bit more before getting the soldering iron out, but I think this will be pretty much the plan.

[Joseph_Pestell]

12 hours ago, andrewshimmin said:

I am trying to work out what my sections should be. I want maximum operational control, so I prefer to have lots of sections rather than rely on points to switch power on and off to different lines. At the moment my thoughts are looking something like this:

 

It ends up with lots of short section, mainly because of my baseboard joints - I prefer to wire up either side of the joint at a separate section. It will be annoying for wiring up, of course. But that's a one off job. Whereas every time I operate it, if I stick in long sections, I will curse myself that I didn't split them up, so I could attach another loco to the back of a train to haul it away while leaving the loco that brought it, for example.

This is already 20 sections - and I could add three more if I get more pedantic with the middle sidings...

 

The plan is still to do with with toggle switches on the baseboard local to the track sections for this layout. I will solder the power wires direct to the track - it's what I've always done. I will also probably have a common return although I've not done that recently, so I might decide to stick with separate returns.

I will play and ponder a bit more before getting the soldering iron out, but I think this will be pretty much the plan.

 

It's a basic tenet of layout wiring that section breaks should never be at a baseboard joint. Any movement of rails (usually heat expansion) will lead to short circuits.

[andrewshimmin]

On 24/09/2023 at 09:24, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

It's a basic tenet of layout wiring that section breaks should never be at a baseboard joint. Any movement of rails (usually heat expansion) will lead to short circuits.

 

Yes I wondered about this. I suppose I could allow for a certain amount of expansion.

I was thinking of laying the track with isolating rail joiners across the board joints, and then remove them and leave just the gaps.

I doubt there will be huge expansion as the runs of track are not very long.

 

The alternative is having to have lots of electrical connections across the boards, which I was trying to avoid.

[Joseph_Pestell]

21 hours ago, andrewshimmin said:

 

Yes I wondered about this. I suppose I could allow for a certain amount of expansion.

I was thinking of laying the track with isolating rail joiners across the board joints, and then remove them and leave just the gaps.

I doubt there will be huge expansion as the runs of track are not very long.

 

The alternative is having to have lots of electrical connections across the boards, which I was trying to avoid.

 

No, you don't need electrical connections between the boards on a layout of this size. You put in a dropper for each part of the same section and take that back to the switch on the control panel.

[andrewshimmin]

On 27/09/2023 at 08:15, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

No, you don't need electrical connections between the boards on a layout of this size. You put in a dropper for each part of the same section and take that back to the switch on the control panel.

 

Got you. In my case I wasn't intending to have a control panel as such, just local toggle switches on the baseboard. Bur I haven't fully decided.

It's a good suggestion.

[andrewshimmin]

53 minutes ago, andrewshimmin said:

 

Got you. In my case I wasn't intending to have a control panel as such, just local toggle switches on the baseboard. Bur I haven't fully decided.

It's a good suggestion.

 

I would welcome suggestions of how I could do a separate control panel (with all the switches on) which can be removed from the board for packing away, and connect it to each of the three boards?

I suppose I would need to have multi-pin connectors for each board from the control panel (instead of simple power connectors)?

I am a bit put off those because they are more difficult to wire up, less robust, and more difficult to fit to the board frame.

My boards live under the sofa, and everything needs to be connected and disconnected quickly each time I want to use it.

At the moment the boards don't have legs either, they are just used on the floor. In future they will probably be used on the dining table too. In the future I may fit legs.

[Barclay]

I've enjoyed catching up with this thread. The lack of adhesion from the larger Triang loco's - could that be because they relied on Magnadhesion to give them grip on steel track, and, assuming the new track is Nickel-Silver, that won't work?

[andrewshimmin]

11 hours ago, Barclay said:

I've enjoyed catching up with this thread. The lack of adhesion from the larger Triang loco's - could that be because they relied on Magnadhesion to give them grip on steel track, and, assuming the new track is Nickel-Silver, that won't work?

 

Interesting!

I've found the Castle has reasonable adhesion (when serviced) and the Britannia has good adhesion.

Meanwhile the MN has poor adhesion and the Class 31 has poor adhesion (at least, mine does).

I think part of it may be the magnets on the motor being weak - replacements are available through the 3mm Society so I might try that.

The carriages and wagons are also pretty bad in terms of rolling resistance. I'll report back when I've done some servicing and lubrication. But often people end up replacing with metal wheels with pin point bearings.

For what it's worth I didn't find much difference running my Triang locos on old Wrenn and Triang track, and new Hornby or Peco nickel silver track

 

[andrewshimmin]

After some pondering of various comments here, I have decided to try to make a control panel and wire it up that way. Let's see how that works out. I will report back!

[pippindoo]

Triang TT? What's all that about then??....  A lot of it from my childhood, plus 1 or 2 bits picked up along the way, all there, cleaned and ready to run.  Around a dozen or so locos including a 3 car dmu, 3 dozen coaches, 70+ wagons, buildings, accessories, you'll note the rolling stock is stacked 3 deep! Doh! The stock list is years old so possibly not everything is listed. One day, one day.....

Edited November 2, 2023 by pippindoo

[pippindoo]

 

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by pippindoo

[pippindoo]

Regarding the lack of adhesion, I remember years ago I worked for Beatties model shop in Leeds and we regularly took locos in for repair and part of the service was re-magging the magnets. A quick blast in the machine and the loco would be transformed. Is this still available anywhere does anyone know given the design of modern motors?

Edited November 2, 2023 by pippindoo

[andrewshimmin]

Not much layout progress, as have been busy with other things. But we've managed a few running sessions.

A Triang TT3 session on the floor:

 

And a Hornby TT120 session on the table:

It is lovely to see how effortlessly the Hornby pacifics handle a six coach train (four Pullmans and two Mark 1s).

 

I have been a bit frustrated that photos failed to capture the redness of the red wheels of the A4 garter blue Mallard. I twiddled some settings and managed to get a somewhat better shot:

In reality it's more vibrant than that, but at least it actually looks red this time.

 

The models (locos and carriages) are so exquisite I almost can't believe it every time I get them out. Maybe for those who've been exposed to RTR in other scales it doesn't seem that unusual, but as someone whose exposure has been only really to Triang products from the fifties, it's incredible!

[TT100 Diesels]

I must say, the TT120 stuff looks lovely, I am not much of a steam outline person but that A4 looks brilliant.

 

Great to see pictures of it in action. That load 6 behind the pacific looks a convincing train, nice one.

 

Cheers

 

TT100 Diesels

[Ravenser]

On 28/09/2023 at 09:49, andrewshimmin said:

 

I would welcome suggestions of how I could do a separate control panel (with all the switches on) which can be removed from the board for packing away, and connect it to each of the three boards?

I suppose I would need to have multi-pin connectors for each board from the control panel (instead of simple power connectors)?

I am a bit put off those because they are more difficult to wire up, less robust, and more difficult to fit to the board frame.

 

One possible approach is DIN plugs/sockets . These should be a bit more robust than the 25 way D sockets, and there should be a bit more room for soldering the connections on the sockets

 

A 7 pin DIN plug should give you 3 seperate circuits plus a spare connection. If you are using a common return wiring system, where one side of the wiring is wired as one, and the switching is all on the other side of the circuit, you would get more than that.

 

This means that if you used them as interboard connectors you could have a few sections straddling board joints - and thereby reduce the number of sections you need

 

The one objection I can see is that the wire in the cables is relatively fine, so there may be a risk of slight voltage drop. That is certainly a possible issue with 16V AC supply to solenoids which is high current and will therefore meet high resistance, although once a capacitor discharge unit is involved there is no problem.

 

As a matter of principle I would therefore use the shortest available ready made male-male DIN cables. 

 

But I would have thought you could supply all necessary interboard and layout/controller cables and sockets for about £30 all up from the likes of Amazon or ebay or RS Components

[2E Sub Shed]

I would prefer D-Types over DIN connectors.   D-Types are more easily wired with the thicker multi-strand cable cores.

 

The most spectacular and only failure of a D-Type I can recall is when someone inserted one the "wrong way round" using brute force.

 

Another alternative is to use SCART connectors, However do not use ready made cables (unless you are prepared to open both ends and check the wiring) as they do common up some pins, 

 

For applications where some people use DIN Plugs (such as handheld controllers), I prefer to use XLR connectors, which are available in 3 to 7 pin varieties, and have a robust metal shell. 

[andrewshimmin]

Thanks chaps. I've got some D connectors and we'll see how it goes...!

 

For what it's worth I've previously used DIN and have had issues, both with damage (small hands can be surprisingly brutal!) and with difficulty soldering. But all repairable/replaceable.

 

I will report back...

Edited November 5, 2023 by andrewshimmin

[andrewshimmin]

Not a huge amount of progress to report.

I have made a panel to be my control panel for the switches.

It's an A4 sized piece of thin ply with a wooden frame, construction as per the baseboards.

 

The Star of India Rolls Royce Phantom II in the background is neither 3mm nor 1:120 scale! It's an Italeri 1:24 kit I did earlier in the year. Was quite a bit harder than Airfix / Revell ones I'd done previously...

 

Anyway, next is painting the control panel, followed by starting some switch installation, and then wiring.

 

Meanwhile, I might play with some trains.

[andrewshimmin]

Perhaps not the most prototypical goods train ever, but at least they're all from the same railway 😉:

[andrewshimmin]

Well, Father Christmas very kindly supplied me with a bigger variety of goods stock!

 

They're almost all Hornby but the yellow Cadburys wagon is Peco. As others have said, it's nicely modelled, but the couplings aren't as good as the Hornby ones.

Really I need a steam tank engine to shunt with, but in the meantime, you can shunt perfectly well with a streamlined pacific...!