What and where photos of steam in Europe

[Blandford1969]

Hello, would anyone be able to help narrow down the details on some locos from some of my negatives. 

 

First is a Belgian State Railways Type 51 built by Couillet of which 4 were built for the Mines of Crespin. Can anyone help with which number it might be and when it was taken

 Next is 1705 built by Cail & Cie - somewhere in Spain, can anyone help to tie down where and when it was taken and anything more on the loco?

Finally is 0-4-4-0 tank E159 - thought to be in Portugal, but there is no concreate evidence yet. 

Any help on getting more information on these negatives in my collection would be really appreciated. 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by Blandford1969

[pH]

Is that not a ‘continental’ 4 on the cabside of the Type 51?

[Peterem]

Can I suggest getting in touch with the Industrial Railway Society?  Their Groups.io page https://groups.io/g/IndustrialRailwaySociety is not only for members and often shows a staggering amount of knowledge of Belgian and Iberian prototypes (not just industrial ones). They'd love to see your photos.

 

Peter

[Moxy]

I can't help with exact dates or locations of any of these, but I have managed to find some info on the locos.

 

Belgian type 51.

 

Not much found about his one.  The Mines de Crespin were in northern France, close to the Belgian border, which probably explains why they ordered Belgian locos.  I agree with pH, that looks like number 4 on the cabside. 

 

There is some info here : https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compagnie_des_mines_de_Crespin

about the mine, but no closure date.

 

Cail & Cie 1705.

 

I think that is actually 1706, not 1705.  They were a pair of locos built for La compañía del Ferrocarril de Almansa a Valencia y Tarragona (AVT). Cail & Cie of Paris exported some locos to Spain in 1857.  Cail & Cie ceased trading in 1870.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Société_J._F._Cail_%26_Cie

1706 is the number allocated by its later owner Norte.  It went on to become RENFE 030-2003 in 1947

 

https://trenesytiempos.blogspot.com/2020/05/la-traccion-vapor-en-renfe-x-unas-mamut.html?fbclid=IwAR1IUhv2JMtS8uCZbGAtxDjpng-zS2OFQ2lAc1KfFt3H8rFeb3-ja5UuCqk

 

This would suggest your photo is from before 1947 (or at least, before RENFE renumbered it).

 

0-4-4-0 Tank E169.

 

That is definitely Portugal.  The 'CP' on the bufferbeam stands for 'Companhia dos Caminhos de Ferro Portugueses.'

 

E169 was from a batch of Mallet 0-4-4-0T built by Henschel in 1908. It was still running in 1960, but I don't know when it was withdrawn. (info from 'Steam on the Sierra'  Allen & Wheeler. Cleaver Hume Press, London 1960).

 

I hope this is some help.

Edited February 8, 2023 by Moxy
Correct the number of the Mallet tank

[Blandford1969]

1 hour ago, Moxy said:

I can't help with exact dates or locations of any of these, but I have managed to find some info on the locos.

 

Belgian type 51.

 

Not much found about his one.  The Mines de Crespin were in northern France, close to the Belgian border, which probably explains why they ordered Belgian locos.  I agree with pH, that looks like number 4 on the cabside. 

 

There is some info here : https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compagnie_des_mines_de_Crespin

about the mine, but no closure date.

 

Cail & Cie 1705.

 

I think that is actually 1706, not 1705.  They were a pair of locos built for La compañía del Ferrocarril de Almansa a Valencia y Tarragona (AVT). Cail & Cie of Paris exported some locos to Spain in 1857.  Cail & Cie ceased trading in 1870.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Société_J._F._Cail_%26_Cie

1706 is the number allocated by its later owner Norte.  It went on to become RENFE 030-2003 in 1947

 

https://trenesytiempos.blogspot.com/2020/05/la-traccion-vapor-en-renfe-x-unas-mamut.html?fbclid=IwAR1IUhv2JMtS8uCZbGAtxDjpng-zS2OFQ2lAc1KfFt3H8rFeb3-ja5UuCqk

 

This would suggest your photo is from before 1947 (or at least, before RENFE renumbered it).

 

0-4-4-0 Tank E159.

 

That is definitely Portugal.  The 'CP' on the bufferbeam stands for 'Companhia dos Caminhos de Ferro Portugueses.'

 

E159 was from a batch of Mallet 0-4-4-0T built by Henschel in 1908. It was still running in 1960, but I don't know when it was withdrawn. (info from 'Steam on the Sierra'  Allen & Wheeler. Cleaver Hume Press, London 1960).

 

I hope this is some help.

Thanks to you and PH it is really appreciated. 

 

Peterm - I will certainly post them on the Industrial Railway Society - thanks for the suggestion.

[Blandford1969]

Here we have 2-6-2 5 Villabaso 

Next 2-6-2 15C11, again no idea where or when.

Finally a tank but cant see the number, nor wheel arrangement. Could it be French?

 

Thanks for any suggestions in advance, or it not just hope you enjoy them.

 

 

[Moxy]

35 minutes ago, Blandford1969 said:

Here we have 2-6-2 5 Villabaso 

 

 

That is a Baldwin from the Ponferrada - Villablino line in Northern Spain.

 

https://www.internationalsteam.co.uk/tales/lythgoe24.htm

 

Sorry, no ideas on the other two.

[Michael Hodgson]

Isn't that E169 not E159 on the buffer beam?

 

Sorry, I know nothing of any of these locos.  There are a few specialist organistaions like this http://frenchrailwayssociety.org/ who would be more likely to be able to answer your questions.  I don't know how responsive they would be towards non-members.

[Moxy]

6 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Isn't that E169 not E159 on the buffer beam?

 

 

Yes, it is.  I was reading E169 from my reference, don't know why I typed E159.  I have now corrected it.

[Sarcodelic]

2 hours ago, Blandford1969 said:

Here we have 2-6-2 5 Villabaso 

Next 2-6-2 15C11, again no idea where or when.

Finally a tank but cant see the number, nor wheel arrangement. Could it be French?

 

Thanks for any suggestions in advance, or it not just hope you enjoy them.

 

 

The two locomotives in the second photograph look like they are in the same location as this picture which is identified as Warsaw Railway Museum.:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Oi_1-29_Warszawa_06.04.05.jpg

 

 

 

Both appear to have PKP (Polskie Koleje Państwowe = Polish state Railways) emblems on their cab sides.

 

The locomotive on the left originated as a Prussian P6 (later DRG Br 37). In Poland they were class Oi1. P6s, Br 37s and Oi1s were made in H0 by Fleischman within the last 10 or so years.

 

The locomotive on the right originated in Austro-Hungary (the Austrian part) and looks to me to be kkStB (k.k.* Staatsbahnen = Imperial-Royal Austrian State Railways class 429), later OBB Rh 35. In Poland they were Ol12. These were made in H0 by Klein Modellbahn about 15 years ago. The model is no longer available and the manufacturer has ceased trading.

 

*Kaiserliche und Königliche I think

 

The third photograph shows a former Prussian T18 (later Br 78). I have no idea where, though. Although some were used in France, I wonder if this one is in Turkey based on the crescent on the cab side. That would make it TCDD class 37 I think. Br 78s have been made by Fleischmann in H0 and N previously and Piko have released one in H0 fairly recently. I think Märklin/Trix made them in H0 too, I am not going to comment on models in other scales.

 

I will leave it to others to embellish/correct this as necessary.

 

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by Sarcodelic
Add details, correct typos - all that jazz

[EddieB]

I agree with Moxy that the Spanish loco is 1706, not 1705.  One of a pair of 0-6-0 locos built by Sharp Stewart (b/ns 1222/3 of 1860/1, not Cail) for FC de Almansa a Valencia y Tarragona (AVT), originally numbered 21 and 22 (later 45 and 46).  They became Norte 1705 and 1706, but only 1706 survived into RENFE ownership, becoming 030-2003, before withdrawal in 1947.  The picture shows the loco is later form, with a more substantial cab. 

 

As Moxy says, FC de Ponferrada a Villablino no. 5 was built by Baldwin (BLW 52658/1919) and is preserved at Museo Ferrocarril, Ponferrada.

 

The two locos at the Warsaw Railway Museum are PKP 2-6-0 Oi1-29, Schwartzkopf 3450/1905 (ex-KPEV Elberfeld 319, 2110, PKP-A Oi1-7, DRB 37.171) and 2-6-2 Ol12-7, 2-6-2 StEG 3849/1912 (ex-kkStB 429.195, PKP-A Ol12-43, DRB 35.817).   The latter was later moved to the Skansen at Chabówka.

 

CP E169 was originally Minho e Douro 409 (Henschel 8916/1908), now restored and plinthed at Vila Real (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@41.2953488,-7.7390479,3a,75y,211.49h,75.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sP8IqqwKfCj5Hz7A3VAhmWQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192).

 

The T18 type in Turkey is one of eight ordered from Henschel by the Anatolian Railway (CFOA), delivered to TCDD in 1925.  The location appears to be Istanbul-Haydarpaşa (the terminus on the Asian side).  (I cannot make out the running number).

[Gordonwis]

 

 

 

This is CP (Portuguese State Railways) metre gauge E169. This train is on the Porto suburban lines from Porto Trindade station. I saw this line with steam in 1971

 

 

.

Edited February 11, 2023 by Gordonwis

[Gordonwis]

On 08/02/2023 at 20:06, Blandford1969 said:

Here we have 2-6-2 5 Villabaso 

Next 2-6-2 15C11, again no idea where or when.

Finally a tank but cant see the number, nor wheel arrangement. Could it be French?

 

Thanks for any suggestions in advance, or it not just hope you enjoy them.

 

 

 

 

The 2-6-2 number 5 is a metre gauge Baldwin on the Ponferrada - Villablino line in northern Spain. It was famously Spain's last steam worked line (until 1988). I visited this line several times between 1971 and 1988 if you need further info

 

The second shot is at Warszawa railway museum adjacent to the old main station. I once stayed in the PKP railway apartments here! 

 

The bottom shot is a TCDD (Prussian T18, aka DRG 78) '3705' class 4-6-4 tank. They were used on the Istanbul Asian side suburban network (Haydarpasa - Adapazari) until circa 1976. I have seen 3705 static but missed the Haydarpasa suburban steam.

 

 

 

.

 

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by Gordonwis

[Bill Jamieson]

On 11/02/2023 at 19:05, Gordonwis said:

 

 

The 2-6-2 number 5 is a metre gauge Baldwin on the Ponferrada - Villablino line in northern Spain. It was famously Spain's last steam worked line (until 1988). I visited this line several times between 1971 and 1988 if you need further info

 

The second shot is at Warszawa railway museum adjacent to the old main station. I once stayed in the PKP railway apartments here! 

 

The bottom shot is a TCDD (Prussian T18, aka DRG 78) '3705' class 4-6-4 tank. They were used on the Istanbul Asian side suburban network (Haydarpasa - Adapazari) until circa 1976. I have seen 3705 static but missed the Haydarpasa suburban steam.

 

 

 

.

 

 

PV No. 5 is shunting at Ponferrada - from the direction of the sun, the shot will have been taken fairly early in the morning.

On the evidence of the avenue of trees and double track, I would suggest that CP No. E169 has just left Senhora da Hora station and is bound for Trindade, the narrow gauge terminus in Porto.

Bill