3-Rail O Gauge at Hattons

[nathan70000]

Hattons seem to have listed an absolutely enormous haul of American 3-Rail O Gauge locomotives and rolling stock, and every time I check back there seems to be more added. Suffice to say I'm quite surprised since I would have thought there is zero market for it in the UK. 

 

The quality seems to be variable- newer MTH locomotives look just as detailed as their HO counterparts but the older Lionel seems very coarse and toy-like.

 

I did wonder it might be useful outdoors, bigger and less likely to be damaged than HO/OO and considerably cheaper than G scale.

[Keith Addenbrooke]

Interesting - I’d not seen this.  Hattons also sell worldwide and have been intentionally developing their market presence in the US in particular, which may also be where this collection came from.  Just a thought.  Thanks for flagging this up, Keith.

[nathan70000]

3 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

Interesting - I’d not seen this.  Hattons also sell worldwide and have been intentionally developing their market presence in the US in particular, which may also be where this collection came from.  Just a thought.  Thanks for flagging this up, Keith.

 

I'd be surprised if the collection was from the US since it wouldn't make sense to bring enough stock to fill a shipping container over the Atlantic only to ship it back again to buyers in North America (surely the shipping cost on anything O Gauge would be enormous?).

 

What would be really interesting is if Hattons actually tried to "launch" coarse scale three rail in the UK. MTH did a few UK items and Lionel did the Hogwarts Express so the bare bones of a future UK range are there, Hattons could in theory monopolise the market the same way Hornby have with TT. And there is/was healthy demand for US outline in general over here too.

[sncf231e]

6 hours ago, nathan70000 said:

I did wonder it might be useful outdoors, bigger and less likely to be damaged than HO/OO and considerably cheaper than G scale.

I run a.o. American 3-rail 0 gauge outdoor and it runs generally better than 2-rail scale 0 gauge. I saw this Hattons offerings yesterday and bought a train (Santa Fe Valley Flyer by Weaver) which I will show here running outdoors when it arrives.

Regards

Fred

[Nearholmer]

14 hours ago, nathan70000 said:

What would be really interesting is if Hattons actually tried to "launch" coarse scale three rail in the UK

If you have a look at my thread, you will see that it was launched here long ago, well over a century ago, and is still sailing along, after a spell in the doldrums in the 60s, 70s, and 80s.

 

If Hattons wanted to stock British outline coarse-0, I’m sure they could source it from the likes of Ace and WJV. 
 

https://www.acetrainslondon.com

https://www.wjvintage.co.uk

 

Or, do you mean specifically American coarse-0 3-rail? 
 

 

Edited March 11, 2023 by Nearholmer

[kernowtim]

I have bought (quite a) few items recently from this range, many appear unused , one large  steam locomotive has been out of it's box but never used so presumably just on display, unfortunately arrived damaged however hattons offered a return or partial refund, I opted for the latter!

Another minor issue was some items I had paid for had actually been sold a few minutes earlier, so were put on back order and the others sent out!

Some I got a notification they were out of stock when I attempted to checkout, for example these, or ones very similar, were in my basket at £5 and have now appeared at inflated price on ebay 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/155447748904

The seller has a few other items that appeared on hattons site..

 

[kernowtim]

Something else I noticed is there is a certain amount of duplication in their stock, 5 identical lionel box cars for example, and also some expensive locos, 2 of these..

https://www.hattons.co.uk/1148651/mth_20_3029_1_po_4_8_4_gs_4_4449_southern_pacific_with_protosound_pre_owned_good_box/stockdetail

If it is all from a private collection the owner must have forgotten what they had!

 

[jjb1970]

Hattons do offer very competitive international shipping. This is germane to my own circumstances, they've obviously negotiated a very favourable arrangement with their carriers as they can be much cheaper than other retailers (less than half in many cases) for shipping to Singapore.

[sncf231e]

3 hours ago, kernowtim said:

ttps://www.hattons.co.uk/1148651/mth_20_3029_1_po_4_8_4_gs_4_4449_southern_pacific_with_protosound_pre_owned_good_box/stockdetail

If it is all from a private collection the owner must have forgotten what they had!

 

It is quite normal to have more than one SP Daylight in your collection (I also have several, but in different gauges):

Regards

Fred

[kernowtim]

Had a look at the £75 K-Line train set today, looks unused with some items in sealed bags, original shipping box shows it was sent at a cost of $31.55 from Palatine IL to an address in Switzerland , October 15 1996 , 

The other lionel rolling stock ordered appears to be unused too!

 

[nathan70000]

On 10/03/2023 at 22:01, Nearholmer said:

If you have a look at my thread, you will see that it was launched here long ago, well over a century ago, and is still sailing along, after a spell in the doldrums in the 60s, 70s, and 80s.

 

If Hattons wanted to stock British outline coarse-0, I’m sure they could source it from the likes of Ace and WJV. 
 

https://www.acetrainslondon.com

https://www.wjvintage.co.uk

 

Or, do you mean specifically American coarse-0 3-rail? 
 

 

"Re-launch" was perhaps the phrase I was looking for!

 

ACE Trains... interesting, but pricy. Exactly the sort of thing I had in mind though, a range catering more to the nostalgia/fun end of the market than the ultra-high detail purist side. I think to make it work over here the prices would have to more comparable to US three-rail O Gauge, those ACE Trains models are lovely but double the price of comparable Lionel products.

 

I'm not sure just launching the US brands over here would work or if there's enough demand.

 

When I first started dabbling in US HO I really wanted to model the New Haven. I did some research and was quite surprised to find far more locos and stock in O than there was in HO at that time. I also came across quite a few O gauge layouts and was struck by how they seemed to take a completely different approach to the typical UK modeller. Rather than all-out prototypical accuracy and plausibility US O Gauge layouts tend to aim at invoking the atmosphere of a particular place or era, and I must say they do it quite successfully. Even though the tight curves and third rail break the illusion somewhat they feel very "alive" with little dioramas, lights, smoke and steam effects, etc. Some might find that a bit gimmicky but I quite like the more unashamedly fun aspects. It's a nice break from rivet counting!

 

[Nearholmer]

I think you’d be surprised by the size of the following that coarse-0 already has in the UK, there being a continuum from collecting and running  genuinely old stuff, to collecting and running modern made stuff, the big positive being that the two happily interoperate. There are organised groups all over the country, many being affiliated to HRCA, most meeting to play trains in a village hall about half a dozen times each year. But, in the UK it has to be heavy metal; the current buyers tend to perceive plastic as the work of the devil.

 

I seriously doubt that “plastic” coarse-0 could take off here, because we don’t have the continuity with the toy market that exists in the USA, and previous attempts died on their feet, Triang Big Big, and Lima. My gut feel is that adult railway modellers would sneer at it, and that it wouldn’t be able to break in as s toy …… even Playmobil, who know very well how to design and sell good toys, seem to have allowed the truly excellent trains that they had as part of their range to wither away, leaving that space to LGB with whom they previously cooperated (Lego do nicely with incredibly-coarse-not-quite-0 though).

 

In price and fidelity, the upper end of US coarse-0 overlaps into the territory at the boundary of fine and coarse 0 in the UK. Not everything from there is Lionel toy train sets with Batman graphics, some is “fine-scale on coarse wheels”.

 

Hope I’m wrong, because I like to see kids playing with toy trains.

 

 

Edited March 12, 2023 by Nearholmer

[jjb1970]

I love the charm of coarse scale O, and I like the idea of a more impressionist approach to the hobby rather than obsessing over ultimate accuracy.

 

US O could be up my street, but I isn't. The main reason is that I like diesel and electric US trains, and I find the way they represent the pilot areas destroys the illusion and looks very toy like. I find that it ends up with neither the charm of tinplate O nor the accuracy of finer scale O.

[Dava]

I model US O scale 2 rail, I do see 3 rail items which are generally to scale standards except for the aberrations in the wheel and truck areas. Sadly, 2 rail is a niche here although we have a Facebook group for American O-Scale in the UK, please join if interested. Conversions are possible, I saw this loco at the GOG show in Kettering last weekend on the Ellis Clark stand, they also have a haul of US 3 rail items. I was told it had an undiagnosed fault but for £75 decided to try and fix it. It is a K Line Plymouth switcher, these were only made in 3 rail so this has been converted to 2 rail with finescale wheels.

A week later I have sorted the DCC problem but not yet found the setting to get the sound to work. It runs nicely, ideal for a minimum space layout. In my to-do collection there is a Bachmann Williams GE 70 tonner which awaits rewheeling for 2RFS.

nb my test track is multigauge with an off centre 3rd rail for 14 & 16.5 gauges.

 

Dava

Edited March 12, 2023 by Dava
Correction

[Nearholmer]

That is very nice. Is it plastic or die cast mazak?

[Dava]

Three castings for frame, hood and cab. Lionel acquired the K-Line model so maybe available in 3 rail.

 

Dava

[sncf231e]

On 10/03/2023 at 22:07, sncf231e said:

I run a.o. American 3-rail 0 gauge outdoor and it runs generally better than 2-rail scale 0 gauge. I saw this Hattons offerings yesterday and bought a train (Santa Fe Valley Flyer by Weaver) which I will show here running outdoors when it arrives.

Regards

Fred

Here it is:

Regards

Fred

[F-UnitMad]

On 12/03/2023 at 14:11, Dava said:

I model US O scale 2 rail, I do see 3 rail items which are generally to scale standards except for the aberrations in the wheel and truck areas. Sadly, 2 rail is a niche here although we have a Facebook group for American O-Scale in the UK, please join if interested. Conversions are possible, I saw this loco at the GOG show in Kettering last weekend on the Ellis Clark stand, they also have a haul of US 3 rail items. I was told it had an undiagnosed fault but for £75 decided to try and fix it. It is a K Line Plymouth switcher, these were only made in 3 rail so this has been converted to 2 rail with finescale wheels.

A week later I have sorted the DCC problem but not yet found the setting to get the sound to work. It runs nicely, ideal for a minimum space layout. In my to-do collection there is a Bachmann Williams GE 70 tonner which awaits rewheeling for 2RFS.

nb my test track is multigauge with an off centre 3rd rail for 14 & 16.5 gauges.

 

Dava

Aha!!! You are Esme Negre, & I claim my £5..!!! 😁😁👍🤣

 

[Dava]

47 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said:

Aha!!! You are Esme Negre, & I claim my £5..!!! 😁😁👍🤣

 

aka @Warycat on Twitter & Mastodon! Feline social media accounts managed from one bureau.
 

Your reward: