Cannot get any response from my first try at DCC

[SquiddlyDiddly]

I have a DCC Problem. I have tried to explain the situation on more than one Model Railway Forum and all I get are standard basic responses straight out of the "Troubleshooting Manual", totally ignoring what I have written in my post. I appreciate people are trying to help but so far it hasn't helped. This is my first experience with DCC, although I got my DC  first train set way back in 1960.
I do not have a Model Railway Layout at present as I moved house 3 years ago (downsized) and am undertaking a 5 year project to completely renovate the house I have moved into. I am also having to sell a lot of my collected locos and rolling stock in order to help fund my renovations. So to sell the loco's I have set up a test track on a piece of floorboard to ensure they run properly  before I sell them. 
On the same floorboard I have a second track. This track is for me to acclimatise myself with DCC  concepts. As it  is only a single track, it is in effect my program track. I purchased a new NCE Powercab starter system for me to use.
I followed the relatively simple instructions for connecting wiring to the track and then  setting up the NCE controller to operate the system.And then I followed the also simple instructions to test a DCC fitted locomotive on the track...........and that is where my problem started. Nothing happened, the locomotive did not move.
Having worked on DC model railways all my life off and on, I knew at  that poit that I needed to test other locomotives, re-test the connections and ensure that the  wiring was in fact connected to the track properly.
In brief I tested a number of locomotives -Factory  fitted  Decoder, DCC ready with Decoder fitted, DCC ready with a different decoder fitted. Ran a DCC ready on my DC track, then fitted a decoder and tried to run it. I tried Hornby 8 pin deoders and Bachmann with 211 pin decoders. Everything produced the same result - no movement, no lights and no sound.
I even turned off  the DCC, connected my DC conroller to the DCC wring and track and ran a DC locomotive perfectly on the same track.
I next tried to read a CV from all my loco options and the result was the same for all locomotives - "Cannot Read CV".
So my thoughts then turned to whether the Powercab controller was the problem. OK it showed that it was sending messages - but did they actially talk to the decoder? When asking to read a CV, did  the controller actually send the message it was asking or was it that it could not receive the response.
By accident, I got a partial answer to this. I had two class 08 diesels on the shelf, both green livery but one was  DC  and one was DCC fitted. I put the DC loco on the track by  mistake and connected the Powercab to the power, and...........the controller "buzzed". So that told me that the Powercab was at least getting  a connection to the track.

[Mark Forrest]

The fact that you tried several different locos suggests the a problem with the controller (or, no offence, user error).

I'm not familiar with the Powercab, but am sure there are plenty here who are.  Might be worthwhile posting a few photos of how it's set up and what it shows on the display and see if that gives any clues.

 

Testing your locos on someone else's controller would also confirm that it's a controller issue, if that's possible.

[WIMorrison]

Do you know the addresses of the locos that you have and are trying to control?

[RAF96]

The buzz you heard was likely the motor in the DC loco protesting about being fed DCC potential. It doesn’t do them any good and is not recommended to put DC only locos on a DCC track.

It is presumed that all your decoder equipped locos either have the factory default address of 3 or you have a list of the addresses they have subsequently been programmed with.

Without patronising in any way are you selecting this/these address(es)  on your controller before trying to control each loco. I am not familiar with this controller but is it possible it is in programming mode when it needs to be in track run mode.

[SquiddlyDiddly]

In reply and to the reply above. I have three locomotives that I am / was assured were set/reset to 3. The others I have assumed were at 3 but of course I might be wrong. I just bought a loco and asked the seller to reset to 3 which he said he did. This locomotive doesn't respond  to any command and doesn't return a CV when requested. I think the controller might be at fault. I bought it a couple of  years ago and didn't keep the receipt so I was hoping that I could be assured it was a controller problem so I could buy another. Not sure I would go for NCE next time.

[Dungrange]

I don't use an NCE Powercab, but the NCE helpdesk does highlight that you'll get this error unless you are in Program Track Mode / Service Mode.  However, that doesn't explain why you can neither read CVs or get a locomotive to move.

 

https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/202353705-Cannot-Read-CV

 

Since you've tried more than one locomotive, it points to either a problem with the NCE Powercab, a set-up issue, or user error.

 

On the Model Railroader forum, there is someone who describes a similar problem to you, which seemed to be caused by the cable setup.    They state that "after re-reading the set up instructions several times I realized the coiled power cord was hooked up to the PowerCab, not the flat cable.  Once I switched the cables it worked fine." It might be worth checking your set up.

https://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/289531.aspx

 

[Derekl]

Second the above - the PowerCab comes with two cables, a flat one and a coiled one. It is tempting to use the coiled cable as it looks more the part, but it only has 4 cores, not the 6 required for the PowerCab to work.

Edited March 31, 2023 by Derekl
Correct error

[73c]

Also, along with the reply above, have you connected the handset to the right hand socket on the board with the red led? ( led to the top )

I did plug in to the wrong side once and found nothing happened, no control or programming.

[Pete the Elaner]

If you can hear a DC loco buzz, then it sounds like you have connectivity. A voltimeter across the rails should confirm this although you will not get an accurate reading (because the meter will be calibrated for sine wave AC, not the square wave DCC produces). It is useful enough to show you if there is a voltage there though.

Selecting 'Use Program Track' from the Powercab turns the entire layout/test track into a programming track. You have not mentioned if you have more than 1 loco on it. You won't be able to read anything if there are 2 on the track because they will both respond & that will confuse the system.

As per a previous response, the flat cable is the correct one. The coiled cable is for using the handset as an additional one in another system or to connect a USB adapter board, but if you just have the 1 Powercab, you should not be using it. If a DC loco buzzes, it sounds like this is not your problem.

Once you can read decoders you can see what their addresses are.

[Lemmy282]

Just to check, you say the loco's are all set to default address 3. When you "Select Loco" are you putting just "3" in or "0003"?

There is a difference, 3 is a short address and is the default, 0003 is a long address, so the loco's won't respond to that.

If that is not the problem a couple of pictures of the set up might help, plug connections, screen etc.

 

Nigel L

[Nigelcliffe]

Nobody else has mentioned track-clips.   The electrical "easy connect your wires here" things in many trainsets.   They usually contain DC noise suppressors, which are bad news for DCC as they mess up the shape of the DCC signal.     

If the track in use has any power clips on them, remove the clips.  Its not enough to just connect the wires to the rails, the presence of the power clips means it is still doing its job!   

 

- Nigel

 

 

 

[RAF96]

22 hours ago, Nigelcliffe said:

Nobody else has mentioned track-clips.   The electrical "easy connect your wires here" things in many trainsets.   They usually contain DC noise suppressors, which are bad news for DCC as they mess up the shape of the DCC signal.     

If the track in use has any power clips on them, remove the clips.  Its not enough to just connect the wires to the rails, the presence of the power clips means it is still doing its job!   

 

- Nigel

 

 

 

To illustrate these clips . . .the capacitor may be a different colour.

[SquiddlyDiddly]

I am not using a track clip. I have soldered the track wires to the rails. If I remove everything DCC and connect a DC controller to the DCC track wires soldered to the track a DC locomotive runs perfectly. So that proved the solder connections are OK in my book.

 

I have tested the power panel using NEC instructions and that passes as working.

 

The handset seems to operate perfectly in allowing me to enter commands. I have done a factory reset with no problem. I have tried other procedures and although nothing returns a communication from the decoder in the locomotive, the procedures all go as the manual says they should.

 

The only thing I haven't done  is remove decoders from 5 locomotives and reseat them. In my limited understanding, I would not expect them all to be mounted incorrectly. I know at least one locomotive was set to 3 and tested to be working and at least one other is brand new and should be at 3. BTW I do use '3' and not '03' or '003' as one previous response suggested might be the problem.

 

As I only have this one metre piece of track to use for DCC, I have not specified to the controller if it is  a Program Track or a Main Layout Track. Nothing in the manual explaining the Quick Start Guide seems to say I should have specified the track type. Is that correct? I am on another forum and someone on there is asking me to send photos of the display from my handset. I have compared my display to those in the manual in sending the message and they are identical. The only difference is that the display does not change as there is no response. I have tried to read a CV and I get the response "Cannot Read CV".

 

[Izzy]

The 'cannot read cv' return rather suggests that power is not getting to the track under DCC.

That somewhere there is a break in the wire connections. It might be in the plug connection into the handset etc.

 

Bob

[SquiddlyDiddly]

I will once again test the continuity of the track power cable today.

[Phil Bullock]

20 minutes ago, SquiddlyDiddly said:

I will once again test the continuity of the track power cable today.

I sense your frustration! Where abouts are you based? 

[SquiddlyDiddly]

I live in Prestbury near Macclesfield Cheshire.

 

BTW I haven't tested the track power cable yet. I will try tonight..........I hope.

[Phil Bullock]

Just now, SquiddlyDiddly said:

I live in Prestbury near Macclesfield Cheshire.

 

BTW I haven't tested the track power cable yet. I will try tonight..........I hope.

Ah wrong Prestbury! If it was Cheltenham would offer a helping hand…

[dave75]

I have no knowledge of your control system but one thing strikes me might be worth considering.  On my Arduino dcc setup I have two outputs ie two pairs of wires  , the first pair go to the program track is only used for programing is a seperate track isolated from the rest. Once it's been programmed, I put it on the track "Main" connected to the other output and check it responds to controls which inevitably it does.

[SquiddlyDiddly]

What a pity Phil Bullock. I have tested continuity and the track wire is absolutely fine..  Andy

[ITG]

Having followed these trials and tribulations with sympathy, I’m wondering can you not take your locos to a friend’s layout or a model shop for a test? That would then rule in or out one aspect. Similarly is there no one nearby with a DCC loco to bring to your layout? Or anyone with an alternative control unit?

ian

[nick_bastable]

are these 6pin decoders if so have they been put in correctly ?

[beejack]

A few things to check if you haven't already!

1. Is the red light on the panel illuminated?

2. Are you using the flat lead in the left socket with the led at the bottom?

3. Are you trying to read a CV using program on the main?  if so this wont read a Cv only allow you to write to it.

 

I would try the following if you haven't already

1. Press Prog/esc button.

2. press 4 and enter.

3. press 1 and wait for the power cab to read the decoder info.

4. if successful follow the on screen prompts to change the address.

 

If the following the above you can't read the decoder manufaturers id,  then it is probably a faulty power cab.

One thing you could check before sending it back is to check the eprom is fully inserted into its socket. 

To do this you'll have to remove the back cover but worth doing  before you send it back. sometimes chips can be dislodged in transit.

There are 8 screws to remove, 7 around the edge and one in the middle near the top.  The smaller screw at the bottom on the thin cover can be left as is this an unused battery box.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2023 by beejack
fat fingers!

[Torper]

It's a pity that you can't test your PowerCab on someone else's system.  Is there no-one here who lives near Prestbury and has a PowerCab system on which the OP can test his?  Or there's a Macclesfield Model Railway Group - I don't know if anyone there can help or if it would be worth the OP visiting them on a club night to see if anyone has a PowerCab system?  Or although it's two years old, perhaps you could contact the supplier and see if at least they'll test it for you.

[SquiddlyDiddly]

On 06/04/2023 at 18:07, ITG said:

Having followed these trials and tribulations with sympathy, I’m wondering can you not take your locos to a friend’s layout or a model shop for a test? That would then rule in or out one aspect. Similarly is there no one nearby with a DCC loco to bring to your layout? Or anyone with an alternative control unit?

ian

I moved into this area 3 years ago and only now have been trying to get familiar with DCC. I don't know anyone with a model railway and I don't think there is a  model railway shop relatively close by.