Recommandation for a stray alive for a Graham Farish Class 03 and 08

[alangdance]

Does anybody have a recommandation for a stray alive for a Graham Farish Class 03 and 08. There is small amount of room in the cab. Biut all of the stray alive I have found seem a bit big.

[woodenhead]

It's a STAY alive.

 

I doubt there would be one for the 03, the 08 at a pinch but probably not with sound too without some carving up.

 

Have you considered using a van permanently coupled to the loco as somewhere to store the stay alive?

[montyburns56]

Preferably one with a large catpactitor.

[woodenhead]

This chap though has got sound and a stay alive into a narrow gauge hunslet

 

Edited April 5, 2023 by woodenhead

[shanks522]

This is very impressive! 
 

 

 

Graham. 

[alangdance]

any info on how the 08 was done.

 

Woodenhead sorry about my big fingers

 

 

[Izzy]

I've fitted home brew tantalum stay-alives into Farish 03/04's and 08's but these were the pre-dcc ready versions and use the now no-longer-available CT decoders. These packs are just 660uF but enough to allow reliable running. I would suspect the 08 in the video probably uses the new Zimo MS500. Kevin from Coastal DCC is a very clever chap at doing sound installs.

 

Bob

[Nigelcliffe]

On 05/04/2023 at 20:48, alangdance said:

any info on how the 08 was done.

 

Woodenhead sorry about my big fingers

 

 

 

Yes, look at the video on YouTube and information on components is in the comments.   Its a Farish factory sound, plus a Zimo component (which is currently unavailable). 

 

You're always into a certain amount of research and experimentation as to what will or will not fit in small models.  And the options keep shifting as newer circuit boards are offered which allow higher energy density in the same volume.   

 

That amount of stay-alive run time shown isn't needed, its purely for demonstration purposes.  Fraction of a wheel turn is all that's needed in practice.  But, as Izzy says, Kevin at Coastal DCC is quite resourceful at this sort of thing.    (Or blame me, as I would have showed Izzy and Kevin my 04 from over ten years ago and its stay-alive pack).  

 

- Nigel

[alangdance]

Thanks for everybody comments. Most grateful.

My issue now is trying to find a 6 pin decoder with stay alive that has a width of 8mm or less.

I thik I will be hoping that the ESU Lokopilot will be avaible soon. New Zimo MN 6 pins no good. Now wider than

the MX with no stay alive feature.

 

Alan

[woodenhead]

Well I think you've actually spurred me into action to give a Tantalum a go.

 

I've just checked and my MX615R decoders have soldering pads for +tive and ground so I can fit stay alives - I might order some bits and bobs tomorrow and give it a go - the 08 doesn't like a single slip on my layout so perhaps it needs a bit of extra support.

[alangdance]

If it the 08 with the Next 18 a Zimo STACO1 stay-alive kit will fit in the cab with a little bit of modification. Have a look at https://youchoos.co.uk/Index-Resource.php?L1=IG-Class08

 

Alan

[woodenhead]

Mine are the previous version pre-dcc but with the outside cranks.

 

I hard wired them last year, but I think a stay alive will improve their passage over the slip.

[Izzy]

9 hours ago, alangdance said:

Thanks for everybody comments. Most grateful.

My issue now is trying to find a 6 pin decoder with stay alive that has a width of 8mm or less.

I thik I will be hoping that the ESU Lokopilot will be avaible soon. New Zimo MN 6 pins no good. Now wider than

the MX with no stay alive feature.

 

Alan

These days the current MX615 versions are the only real option if you want non-sound decoders . They aren’t cheap (£40), aren’t suitable for use on DC, and unobtainable anyway at present. Their new series replacements will be the MN150 - when they finally arrive. 
 

Bob

[Nigelcliffe]

10 hours ago, alangdance said:

Thanks for everybody comments. Most grateful.

My issue now is trying to find a 6 pin decoder with stay alive that has a width of 8mm or less.

I thik I will be hoping that the ESU Lokopilot will be avaible soon. New Zimo MN 6 pins no good. Now wider than

the MX with no stay alive feature.

 

Alan

 

There is no difference electrically from the old Zimo small MX and the new Zimo small MN in terms of stay-alive hook up.   There is a decoder positive and a ground connection.   So, stay-alive arrangements which worked on small MX will work on small MN.  

It is the case that neither type has "direct hook up" for low voltage capacitors, which has been a feature of the middle sized MX for some time, and features in more of the MS/MN range.  

 

Zimo's website is clear that the MX616/MX615 are still in production because its not currently possible to get parts to shrink the MN series to those sizes.  

 

Stock is a different matter;  and I suspect some adjustment shock to price increases may be happening in the UK as well.  For quite a few years the UK price of some Zimo products was way below that charged in other countries (perhaps a volume deal struck by the importer?).  In a time of component shortages, such pricing isn't going to happen.  

 

- Nigel

 

[alangdance]

The MN 6 pin version which is required for the 03 does not have stay alive support as stated on their web page.

 

http://www.zimo.at/web2010/products/mn-nicht-sound-decoder_EN.htm

 

Alan

[Izzy]

7 hours ago, alangdance said:

The MN 6 pin version which is required for the 03 does not have stay alive support as stated on their web page.

 

http://www.zimo.at/web2010/products/mn-nicht-sound-decoder_EN.htm

 

Alan

This is no different to many current MX decoders. You can still fit stay-alive via solder pads, just needs the other components, diode/resistor/zener as now. This is what the ready-made SA boards you can get are for if not doing it totally yourself. Be aware some decoders support adding 25v capacitors directly while only a few also support 16v ones. It’s down to the size of the decoder and thus the available space to fit the additional parts I would guess.

 

Bob

 

 

[Nigelcliffe]

7 hours ago, alangdance said:

The MN 6 pin version which is required for the 03 does not have stay alive support as stated on their web page.

 

http://www.zimo.at/web2010/products/mn-nicht-sound-decoder_EN.htm

 

Alan

 

No it doesn't say that.    It says it doesn't have DIRECT HOOK UP.   ie. it hasn't got the circuitry to just put 15V voltage capacitor on it without any other components. 

 

It has exactly the same contact points (decoder positive, decoder ground) as the previous MX series, and will take the same design of stay-alive circuits.  The nearest in any documentation is the MS560 and MS590, which is shown connected via either a diode/resistor arrangement, or using the STACO PCB's.   (I doubt Zimo will document DIY circuits, but the connection points are there, and thus the same circuitry will work).    

 

- Nigel