DC>E-Link>Digitrax DCS52/JMRI>Now what? (Given HM7000 has arrived)

[wappinghigh]

^ Either that (they are so out of touch), or they do realise it (and have no intention of expanding the platform to control other DCC bus protocols ie an entire layout) at all  and  1/ they are so arrogant they think everyone will miraculously ditch their current equipment and move to Hornby control (only) or 2/ all this talk about their bluetooth platform controlling an entire layout is total pie in the sky! (nonsense)

Just MO! 

Edited April 23, 2023 by wappinghigh

[wappinghigh]

^So which is it?

1/ They know all about this already..(which I suspect is true)

or

2/ They had no idea until everyone now realises it (and will rush to bring out new dongles, to rectify the situation)?  

[wappinghigh]

Your a large commercial company in the Hobby... 

The BOD and management team have been planning the release of a new DCC bluetooth control platform for months.. ...who knows years..?

The development team presents their ideas - which includes the concept of "a dongle" that will interface with "legacy DCC controllers"

Are we to assume there was no discussion (early on) why it would be crucial for the platforms uptake?

That this is suddenly a surprise to Hornby management? 

That management wouldn't have realised this early on and (if they really wanted this to happen) said to the development teams "go make sure it works with other manufactures?"

I mean call me naive.. but I just don't believe that they didn't know this problem very early (and therefore never planned it to work with other manufactures DCC controllers all along! )

Just MO!!! 

 

Edited April 23, 2023 by wappinghigh

[NIK]

Hi,

 

It was said at the launch that the HM7000 range items announced were the first items in a larger range.

 

It was also said the HM7000 Bluetooth facility was attractive to new entrants who did not yet have a DCC command station. So the provision of dongles is a secondary concern.

Also the dongle only allows control of the DCC command station by a means other than that already available. DCC command stations that have a control interface can already be controlled from a smartphone via a £60 single board computer.

 

Hornby have often gone their own way. I think their Railmaster software only works with their Elite and E-link controllers and not other manufacturers DCC command stations. I think the Bachmann Rail Controller in a similar fashion only works with the Dynamis Ultima DCC command station.

 

Regards

 

Nik

[Pmorgancym]

8 hours ago, NIK said:

Hi,

 

I think the NCE Power Cab and Pro Cab have clear English labels for most buttons and for the display.

I don't know of any commercial systems with LED screens.

 

Regards

 

Nik

Lcd auto correct!

[Ron Ron Ron]

10 hours ago, wappinghigh said:

That dongle is the key to the uptake of the entire HM7000 platform...

There are bigger fish to fry, than dongles for existing DCC users.

At least initially.

 

The most significant advance and attraction, is the ability to obtain the facilities and functionality of DCC, without the need to purchase expensive hardware.

The control interface is a free app, you can load on to your existing smart devices.

This will be particularly appealing to both existing DC users, who were previously unwilling, or unable to make the jump or investment into DCC ……and to newbies, coming into the hobby, where there should be no impediment to going straight into Bluetooth DCC, rather than languish with a third rate, dated option of crude DC operation.

 

Many existing DCC users will already be heavily invested in traditional/ legacy DCC, both in money and time spent.

While the attractions of cheaper, user downloadable sound and speedier and more intuitive CV adjustment will be a significant draw for many, conversion from existing practice may prove to be a more gradual process.

After all, the dongle is only enabling a different type of throttle to be used on existing systems, some of which can already have similar GUI based throttles added, either through in-house options, or the addition of WiThrottle and Engine Driver.

The extra tricks HM DCC brings to the party are wholly limited to locos fitted with HM7000 decoders, with or without the presence of a dongle.

If Hornby plan to extend the number of third party DCC systems, their dongle(s) work with, all the better.

It’s no big deal in the short term.

 

 

.

[wappinghigh]

2 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

There are bigger fish to fry, than dongles for existing DCC users.

At least initially.

 

The most significant advance and attraction, is the ability to obtain the facilities and functionality of DCC, without the need to purchase expensive hardware.

The control interface is a free app, you can load on to your existing smart devices.

This will be particularly appealing to both existing DC users, who were previously unwilling, or unable to make the jump or investment into DCC ……and to newbies, coming into the hobby, where there should be no impediment to going straight into Bluetooth DCC, rather than languish with a third rate, dated option of crude DC operation.

 

Many existing DCC users will already be heavily invested in traditional/ legacy DCC, both in money and time spent.

While the attractions of cheaper, user downloadable sound and speedier and more intuitive CV adjustment will be a significant draw for many, conversion from existing practice may prove to be a more gradual process.

After all, the dongle is only enabling a different type of throttle to be used on existing systems, some of which can already have similar GUI based throttles added, either through in-house options, or the addition of WiThrottle and Engine Driver.

The extra tricks HM DCC brings to the party are wholly limited to locos fitted with HM7000 decoders, with or without the presence of a dongle.

If Hornby plan to extend the number of third party DCC systems, their dongle(s) work with, all the better.

It’s no big deal in the short term.

 

 

.

Sure. 

If there is no progress on loconet or some way to interface Digitrax/JMRI, I'll switch to some other DCC control like the Lenz LZV100 (once someone here on RMWweb or youtube proves to me it all works). Not a major biggie - swap costs less than a couple bluetooth controllers. Cheers and Thanks for comments and help. 😀 

[LNERGE]

I’m sure I read somewhere HM7000 could be used on an existing DCC layout alongside ordinary DCC fitted locomotives being driven from their respective controllers. Is it in this thread or elsewhere?

[Ron Ron Ron]

2 hours ago, LNERGE said:

I’m sure I read somewhere HM7000 could be used on an existing DCC layout alongside ordinary DCC fitted locomotives being driven from their respective controllers. Is it in this thread or elsewhere?

 

That's totally correct.

 

HM7000 decoders are essentially just ordinary DCC decoders, with Bluetooth capability added.

 

1. In DCC mode, they can be used on any DCC layout alongside other, non-Bluetooth decoders and controlled via the host DCC system in the same way.

 

2. The HM7000 decoders can also be switched to operate in Bluetooth mode and operate on the same DCC layout, as before.

    In this mode, although they receive their control commands directly from the app (running on a phone/tablet) via Bluetooth, they use the DCC signal on the track purely as a power supply, to power the decoder  itself and as a power source to drive the motor.

This doesn't impede the normal operation of other (non-bluetooth) locos on the same DCC powered track.

Controlling the HM7000 locos won't be possible via the DCC system in this setting, as the mode of operation has to be set in the decoder, via the HM-DCC app.

 

3. Hornby are releasing a Bluetooth dongle, that is designed to work on DCC systems that use the XpressNet cab (throttle) bus.

    With this installed, the HM-DCC app can also be used to send commands to non-DCC decoders, via the host DCC system.

    The host system effectively being a slave to the HM-DCC system, issuing its own commands as instructed by the app.

    In this mode, only one controller, the HM-DCC app, is being used for both the HM7000 decoders (via Bluetooth) and other non-Bluetooth decoders (via regular, through the rails DCC).

 

 

 

.

 

 

 

[LNERGE]

Many thanks. I shall be experimenting. 

 

[RedgateModels]

There is talk on the MERG forum of seeing if an NCE version of the Dongle can be produced, once Hornby release it. Talk is of "sniffing" the bluetooth communications and emulating them.

[LNERGE]

A definite learning curve. The asymmetric brake is causing me problems but I’m sure I’ve not found the right thing to tweak. Impressed so far.

 

One fundamental problem is my phone locks itself after about fifteen seconds of non activity. I’m sure that is just a case of me finding something to tweak in the phone. 

[Ron Ron Ron]

1 hour ago, LNERGE said:

.......One fundamental problem is my phone locks itself after about fifteen seconds of non activity. I’m sure that is just a case of me finding something to tweak in the phone. 

 

If it's an iPhone, under settings, look for "Display & Brightness".

Under that is the setting for "Auto-Lock".

It can be changed to "Never".

Also, under Face ID & Passcode", is the option to temporarily turn of the passcode...if necessary.

 

Android phones will have similar settings to over-ride these power saving and security settings.

 

 

.

 

[wappinghigh]

Hornby: "Please be advised that after extensive research and testing, the use of DC Analogue controllers is NOT recommended for use with any HM7000-TXS decoders in Bluetooth®️ Mode." I mean come on! They announced DC controllers could be used (now they can't?) Hornby can't even get that right! So what chance the dongle with be useful and tested properly?! 

[phil-b259]

On 11/05/2023 at 22:21, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

If it's an iPhone, under settings, look for "Display & Brightness".

Under that is the setting for "Auto-Lock".

It can be changed to "Never".

.

 

 

Not always!

 

You should be aware that where i-phones / i-pads are provided by companies to their employees then said employers can install device management software such that its impossible to disable the auto-lock feature and mandate the use of pass-codes to unlock the device. 

 

 

[KingEdwardII]

On 11/05/2023 at 22:21, Ron Ron Ron said:

Android phones will have similar settings

My Android phone has a "Smart Lock" setting under "Lock screen". This can be set to keep the phone unlocked when it is in a trusted location, like your home - or railway room...

 

 

Yours, Mike.

[RobinofLoxley]

In any open marketplace there will always be competing systems. Cant get in a stress about this, or even care about it.

[Oldddudders]

On 18/05/2023 at 06:47, phil-b259 said:

 

Not always!

 

You should be aware that where i-phones / i-pads are provided by companies to their employees then said employers can install device management software such that its impossible to disable the auto-lock feature and mandate the use of pass-codes to unlock the device. 

 

 

But would the managed phone allow the employee to install other software - in this case to run trains? 

[phil-b259]

5 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

But would the managed phone allow the employee to install other software - in this case to run trains? 

As long as it’s featured on the Apple or Google store I don’t believe they can stop you doing so from a technical perspective.

 

They can of course restrict what you can access if the device is using cooperate wi-fi because they can add suitable filtering to their servers.

[WIMorrison]

28 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

As long as it’s featured on the Apple or Google store I don’t believe they can stop you doing so from a technical perspective.

 

It is simple using the MDM software to limit the installation of any, or all apps, onto a corporately managed mobile device, irrespective of where it is listed. It is also a simple task to limit the connection to specifically authorised external devices, e.g. Bluetooth peripherals.

 

Some companies will use a secure container within the personal mobile to install corporate applications, these mobile are called BYOD and the owner is able to install his personal software onto his/her phone, but not into the corporate managed container.

[genixia]

On 18/05/2023 at 00:47, phil-b259 said:

 

Not always!

 

You should be aware that where i-phones / i-pads are provided by companies to their employees then said employers can install device management software such that its impossible to disable the auto-lock feature and mandate the use of pass-codes to unlock the device. 

 

 

Now that tablets are so cheaply available it's probably best to not use employer-provided equipment anyway.  At any time you could be called into a meeting to find that you've been laid off and told to hand in your phone.  Some of the cheap tablets on Amazon cost less than a decent carriage. Why take the risk?