London Freight Terminals or Sidings 1980's

[33212]

Hello all,

 

my 1980's London based layout needs at least a small siding or freight terminal, thing is I'm struggling to find any prototypes, I'm talking real central London, not Acton, Norwood etc, nor even Chessington etc. Today we have the cement traffic to St. Pancras, question is, in the 80's was there any actual freight right into the centre area, I'm looking for a siding or freight depot to use, really for justification purposes!

 

thanks in advance

Matt

[griffgriff]

The dying days of KX goods

[bécasse]

When did Paddington Goods close? IIRC it was demolished c1986 but I can't remember now when it actually closed for traffic.

[bazjones1711]

There was Kings Cross goods with sand traffic from Fen Drayton using pairs of class 31 and de hooded TRL PBA wagon  ( IIRC these would be re coded to PHA ) possibly using HTV wagons until the PBA took over in the 1980's , a few wagons were unloaded at Alexandra Palace sand sidings also   . There was also a Tunnel  cement terminal there with traffic from Tring and possibly a Ketton cement terminal there as well.

 A search on Flickr for Fen Drayton sand , Kings Cross Cement etc ... should yield some results.

 

[Rivercider]

7 minutes ago, bazjones1711 said:

There was Kings Cross goods with sand traffic from Fen Drayton using pairs of class 31 and de hooded TRL PBA wagon  ( IIRC these would be re coded to PHA ) possibly using HTV wagons until the PBA took over in the 1980's , a few wagons were unloaded at Alexandra Palace sand sidings also   . There was also a Tunnel  cement terminal there with traffic from Tring and possibly a Ketton cement terminal there as well.

 A search on Flickr for Fen Drayton sand , Kings Cross Cement etc ... should yield some results.

 

The Fen Drayton to Kings Cross sand traffic was in HTVs when I remember it.

 

 

31319 has just been attached to 37125 as the pair depart from Cambridge with the Fen Drayton to Kings Cross sand train 11/7/85

 

cheers

[Rivercider]

56 minutes ago, bécasse said:

When did Paddington Goods close? IIRC it was demolished c1986 but I can't remember now when it actually closed for traffic.

Stone traffic from Cliffe to Paddington continued after other traffic ceased I believe.

 

Picture from Flickr by Andy French, 33001 33052 with 09.10 Cliffe to Paddington New Yard. 13/8/87

 

cheers

[Nearholmer]

Wasn’t there an aggregates terminal somewhere in the Battersea area too?

[Fat Controller]

Angerstein Wharf?

[roythebus1]

4 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Wasn’t there an aggregates terminal somewhere in the Battersea area too?

Yes, somewhere on the Battersea Power station/Stewarts Lane complex. there was nothing on the south Western apart from Tolworth and Chessington. South Eastern had Angerstein Wharf, Bricklayers Arms until about 1980, and the oil tank depot at Sanderstead. That's about the lot.

 

KX Goods is still alive and well with aggregate and cement traffic. There was Ashburton Sidings at Drayton Park with the "Ashburton Belle" aka the BinLiner which took rubbish to somewhere on the GC (Calvert?) or the Bletchley-Bedford line. 

Edited April 12, 2023 by roythebus1

[Nearholmer]

A quick google suggests that there is an aggregated terminal at Stewart’s Lane now, so whether it’s a revival, or whether it has continued throughout, I don’t know. I’m pretty sure I recall seeing Marinex hoppers there, which dates when I first saw it a a bit.

[griffgriff]

Might be worth searching out the North Woolwich line and Silvertown tramway. An urban branch with many industries and dock lines along it.

 

Griff

[Nearholmer]

And, not perhaps freight in the sense you are thinking of, but what about milk?

 

Best not start another detailed discussion, because there are multiple threads about it already, but an interesting traffic, and trains could be short and plausible, which is more than you can say for aggregates.

[guzzler17]

15 hours ago, 33212 said:

my 1980's London based layout needs at least a small siding

 

 

I'd be tempted to lay a siding that could be imagined as a headshunt for an off-scene industry, goods facility etc.

 

Operationally a loco could appear and after a period of time reverse off-scene as if running round a train.  Alternatively an 08 or 09 could shunt a few wagons to and fro.

 

Minimal cost and easy to achieve.

 

OK so not based on a real location but there weren't many really central London freight terminals after the 1960s.

[The Stationmaster]

13 hours ago, Rivercider said:

Stone traffic from Cliffe to Paddington continued after other traffic ceased I believe.

 

Picture from Flickr by Andy French, 33001 33052 with 09.10 Cliffe to Paddington New Yard. 13/8/87

 

cheers

Yes - but as the picture shows the stone traffic was only to Paddington New Yard (and still might be on an occasional basis although Crossrail works eliminated the original sidings.

 

As far as paddington Goods is concerned the last rail borne traffic was a trunk haul  to Bristol TM Goods and everything else that remained had gone over to road by no later than the early-mid 1970s.  I think rail traffic probably ceased at some time in that decade and of course the depot stood unused for some years before the site was sold for redevelopment.  The Instructions, much curtailed, for some of the working to Paddington Goods were still in the 1975 Sectional Appendix but access by then was down to a single line

 

Crimea Yard at Westbourne Park - opposite Paddington New Yard - had been closed by 1967 as far as I can ascertain as teh access to it from the Portobello Jcn end went in that year but there was still a connection left in for some years at the Subway Jcn end - the final remnant of the Crystal Palace Loop.

[hmrspaul]

9 hours ago, griffgriff said:

Might be worth searching out the North Woolwich line and Silvertown tramway. An urban branch with many industries and dock lines along it.

 

Griff

Not sure Silvertown meets the concept of central London. 

A BDO https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brbogiebolsterdunfitplate/e4e993c9

under runner RRA https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brsaakta/e665f8d7d    https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brsaakta/e63f1b3d1  https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brsaakta/e60bd2f2c  

 

Paul

[MyRule1]

@33212o  Doesn't say how central to London doesn't say how close to central London or which region the layout is set in. Apart from Paddington I cannot recall any freight close to the centre in the 1980's. Most parcels traffic ended very early in the decade, so perhaps mail or newspaper trains could be considered. Although not London I recall a parcels/mail platform at Leeds with a couple of RES liveried coaches.

[roythebus1]

I wonder why the Crystal Palace loop at Westbourne Park was so-called?

 

Access to Crimea Yard was across the Hammersmith & City line at the west end of Westbourne Park Met platforms. there was a signal box there to control the movements. On the LT side the automatic signals either side were X-signals, which mean tif the signal remained at danger it had to be treated as a controlled signal, the driver must not pass at danger without authority. I think it was still in use in 1973 when I learnt the Met Line.

[Nearholmer]

2 minutes ago, roythebus1 said:

I wonder why the Crystal Palace loop at Westbourne Park was so-called?

I think it goes back somehow to the West End of London & Crystal Palace Railway of the 1850s. My memory of the detail isn’t good (whose would be after 170 years?), but I think it had something to do with Paddington to Crystal Palace services, which ended up only as far as Clapham Junction.

[roythebus1]

Sounds about right, the broad gauge only got as far as Clapham Junction and into Victoria south eastern side.

 

Presumably traffic for "the south" used the Ladbroke Grove-Addison Road link, closed during WW2. 

 

Edited April 12, 2023 by roythebus1

[The Stationmaster]

18 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

I think it goes back somehow to the West End of London & Crystal Palace Railway of the 1850s. My memory of the detail isn’t good (whose would be after 170 years?), but I think it had something to do with Paddington to Crystal Palace services, which ended up only as far as Clapham Junction.

Exactly so - the name goes back to the time when trains to Crystal Palace were run from Paddington although the service only lasted a couple of years or so.  it was presumably also used by the Paddington = Brighton train which ran from 1906 to 1907.

 

18 hours ago, roythebus1 said:

Sounds about right, the broad gauge only got as far as Clapham Junction and into Victoria south eastern side.

 

Presumably traffic for "the south" used the Ladbroke Grove-Addison Road link, closed during WW2. 

 

The broad gauge never got to Clapham Jcn - it only went to Latchmere Jcn/Longhedge Jcn (and a to Victoria at one tiem although that bit was never used if I remember rightly.   It had all been converted to narrow gauge (GWR definition) by the ned of 1875.

[Rugd1022]

On 12/04/2023 at 07:11, Nearholmer said:

A quick google suggests that there is an aggregated terminal at Stewart’s Lane now, so whether it’s a revival, or whether it has continued throughout, I don’t know. I’m pretty sure I recall seeing Marinex hoppers there, which dates when I first saw it a a bit.

 

We (Freightliner) work aggregates trains into Stewarts Lane from the East Midlands, there's a run round loop, a short cripple siding and an unloading area down by the stop block - this is the view from looking towards Battersea Loop, effectively it was the entrance / exit from Stewarts Lane Loco depot...

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 13, 2023 by Rugd1022

[33212]

Thank you all for the replies, time to ponder..might be a parcels yard / depot rather than goods then, 

 

cheers

 

Matt

[Phil R]

I believe there was also Motorail traffic to Kings Cross which ended in May 1988.

Used the Newton Chambers TCV double decker vehicles (as announced by Heljan) as well as Motorail GUVs.

 

Regards

 

Phil

 

[Fat Controller]

21 hours ago, Rugd1022 said:

 

We (Freightliner) work aggregates trains into Stewarts Lane from the East Midlands, there's a run round loop, a short cripple siding and an unloading area down by the stop block - this is the view from looking towards Battersea Loop, effectively it was the entrance / exit from Stewarts Lane Loco depot...

 

 

 

 

 

Didn't 'Rom River Reinforcement' have a deopt around there?

[roythebus1]

23 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Exactly so - the name goes back to the time when trains to Crystal Palace were run from Paddington although the service only lasted a couple of years or so.  it was presumably also used by the Paddington = Brighton train which ran from 1906 to 1907.

 

The broad gauge never got to Clapham Jcn - it only went to Latchmere Jcn/Longhedge Jcn (and a to Victoria at one tiem although that bit was never used if I remember rightly.   It had all been converted to narrow gauge (GWR definition) by the ned of 1875.

I'm certain there's a photo of broad gauge in what is nowJplatform 16 at Clapham junction, and there's been a recent photo on here of a broad gauge train at Victoria.