CR 812 wagons

[dexterph5]

Just got the Bachmann 812 in the mail and I'm looking to make a rake of coal wagons or mixed goods. I'm looking for some suggestions for what  a freight train would consist of in the early 60s on a branch line. I have about 8 loaded mineral wagons and a brake van on her right now. Is this too many? None of my books give much of a reference, but I'm assuming since the 812 is a 3f I'd be looking at a light load

-Looking for suggestions, Dexter

[Buhar]

Not that light!  Loose-fitted wagon loadings depended very much on the line being worked, but 35 or 40 behind a 3F rated loco is quite conceivable.  Locos a that power classification (and also 2Fs) did a useful job of work all over our railways into the early 60s and that meant hauling a revenue earning load.

[dexterph5]

Very impressive! though I dont think Bachmann's model will handle 35 wagons!

[BlackFivesMatter]

If can get one of Derek Cross' albums of Scottish steam in the 1960s or Scottish urban and rural branch line, they will give a good idea of the proportion of open to van traffic. Also don't forget seasonal and branch specific traffic.  You cannot have enough 16t minerals! 

[Steamport Southport]

If you are struggling to find photos of them on goods trains that is because the batch of 812s that Bachmann have made were mostly passenger locomotives. Seventeen were built with Westinghouse brakes and steam heat for routes the 4-4-0s weren't suitable for. They later got vacuum brakes as well (about 1940 I think).

 

The next batch were built without the passenger equipment for working heavy trains in the Lanarkshire coal fields.

 

 

Thankfully you are in the right era for them to work goods trains and on branchlines, they even seem to have been used as shunters. Have a look here.

 

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p704337679

 

Particularly at photos like this.

 

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p704337679/eb6d53f24

 

 

 

Jason

[Buhar]

You're right about the initial 17 being needed for passenger work at first, although in practice they were split between Clyde coast passengers and passenger-rated goods (fish) traffic, the 5ft wheels helping in both regards.  The Caley had stated on the initial order that they were "Passenger Goods Engines".  The developments in 4-4-0s and 4-6-0s pushed them off their initial passenger routes. 

 

The smaller Jumbos that were built under McIntosh's tenure (70 odd) also had Westinghouse apparatus.  The addition of vacuum braking to ten of the 812s was completed in 1929.  It's a puzzle why none of the main batches or their developments (including the 2-6-0 version) were not Westinghouse fitted, excursions and Glasgow Fair traffic could surely have warranted it.

 

So 828 is not really typical of the class, but does mean it can quite properly head either a passenger or goods train.  Chunky tender flare aside, let's be grateful for it's existence at all.

 

Alan

[pH]

One on empties to Littlemill colliery:

https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/63/130/

 

and two on loads from there:

https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/54/103/

 

There are a couple of pictures of 812s on goods trains in this article:

https://www.keymodelworld.com/article/caledonian-812

 

Another single picture:

https://rogerfarnworth.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/appin-railway-48.jpg

Edited April 21, 2023 by pH

[Buhar]

Hi pH

Without being too acidic in my reply😉 those appear to be steam braked examples which were for goods traffic only and spent their lives doing what those pictures illustrate.  The discussion above focussed on the 17 Westinghouse fitted 812s as modelled by Bachmann/Rails which could haul passenger stock, the Caley being an air-braked line.   Obviously removing the pump creates a standard 812, but I wouldn't want to do that to a blue one and then have to paint it black and line it.

 

Alan

[pH]

3 hours ago, Buhar said:

Hi pHWithout being too acidic in my reply😉 those appear to be steam braked examples which were for goods traffic only and spent their lives doing what those pictures illustrate. 

I was really replying to dexterph5’s OP, where he asked:

 

On 16/04/2023 at 11:32, dexterph5 said:

Just got the Bachmann 812 in the mail and I'm looking to make a rake of coal wagons or mixed goods. I'm looking for some suggestions for what  a freight train would consist of in the early 60s on a branch line.

I was assuming, since he asked about train makeup in the 1960s, he has one of those in BR livery. While his question was quite general, about early  60s branch lines freight trains,  I thought he might like to see some hauled by actual 812s. By the time 57566 (nee 828) for example was withdrawn from Ardrossan in 1963, I don’t think it would have been doing very much passenger work.

[Buhar]

1 hour ago, pH said:

By the time 57566 (nee 828) for example was withdrawn from Ardrossan in 1963, I don’t think it would have been doing very much passenger work.

None at all as the LMS phased out air-braked stock almost entirely before 1939 either by natural wastage or conversion.  I must confess I think almost exclusively in pre-Nationalisation terms when addressing these sort of issues.

Alan