Current Detectors & Railcom Questions

[That Model Railway Guy]

Hi all,

 

I’m just starting to investigate automation for a layout I’m working on and I have a few quick questions about current detectors and Railcom which so far I haven’t found the answer to.

 

I’m using a Roco Z21 (black) as my base station and was intending to use the Roco 10808 detector (which has Railcom) to report back to iTrain. Elsewhere around the layout can I get away with using non-Railcom enabled current detectors or will that confuse the system/iTrain?

 

Basically I was thinking of using the Roco 10819 detectors outside of the fiddle yard as they have double the amount of inputs. Locos would be added to the layout in the fiddle yard where the Railcom detectors are installed so iTrain knows what loco is where. But what happens when a loco moves from a Railcom enabled block to a non-Railcom enabled block? Is iTrain able to keep track of them or does the loco need to be dragged over in the software manually to keep everything happy? 

 

Is it even possible to mix and match the detectors like this and even if it is, is it recommended? I could see an argument for keeping everything consistent to avoid unforeseen frustrations.

 

Thanks in advance 👍

[WIMorrison]

iTrain will consume the Railcom data without issue and this will not affect the non-Railcom enabled occupancy detectors, mainly because Railcom has nothing to do with the occupancy. The occupancy is passed over the network bus (CAN) to the Z21, and from the Z21 over the network to iTrain every time anything draws enough current in the feedback section of track. This can be a loco, or it could be a wagon with lights, or a wagon with a resistive axle.  The Railcom data is sent only when there is a Railcom enabled decoder (and Railcom is switched on in CV28 and CV29). If the Railcom data is present in the occupancy data passed over the network then iTrain will display that number in the Feedback.

 

iTrain doesn't need Railcom to work, there are probably more iTrain users in the UK not using Railcom there are using Railcom however in Northern Europe most people use Railcom. There are no issues mixing and matching Railcom with non-Railcom feedbacks, but you will only get the positive identification of the decoder ID in Railcom enabled feedbacks, otherwise it is plain occupancy.

 

 

[That Model Railway Guy]

Ok great, I think I'm getting there. I already realised that Railcom was an extra addition to the normal occupancy, it was more trying to get my head around what happens when the loco moves from the Railcom block into a normal occupancy block.

 

As I understand from your helpful reply, iTrain doesn’t retain the Railcom information when a loco moves into a normal block, which makes sense since presumably it would just be guessing at that point. Does that mean iTrain still has to be told manually what the loco is at that point, even if it was originally added in a Railcom block then? Or is the Railcom info from a decoder able to be tied to a specific loco profile in iTrain?

 

Or have I misunderstood completely and iTrain needs to be told manually what loco is in each block, even when Railcom is in use? 😅

 

Thanks for your help, I appreciate these are probably very simple questions 👍

[WIMorrison]

iTrain uses a concept based around trains (like the real thing) whereby you have trains that have defined locos and coaches within them. You place the train on the track and iTrain will track this train whilst it is on the layout and the layout is being controlled using iTrain, or a hand throttle that is linked into iTrain e.g. Multimaus.

 

If however you move a train whilst iTrain is switched off then when you switch it on the position will be corrected IF it is a Railcom enabled feedback and the loco has a Railcom detector. If the train is in a non-Railcom feedback then you will need it place it there manually within the iTrain switchboard because there is no positive identification of the loco to enable iTrain to work out where it is.

 

I don't know if you are aware but Bob Fuller and I have created series of videos (around 60) that explain how to use iTrain. This is the first video

 

 

There is also an iTrain forum where you can get help specific to iTrain from myself, other users and the program author himself. You will get a login to the forum when you apply for a trial licence that will provide you with a completely unlimited Professional version license for 60days usage.

 

 

[That Model Railway Guy]

Awesome, thanks for answering those questions for me - much appreciated. Yes I’m slowly working my way through the video series as well exploring the manual too. Lots to learn but I’m definitely understanding more how to achieve what I’m aiming for.

 

Many thanks for all your help 👍

[Michael Hodgson]

Yes, you can certainly mix and match, and as the plain detectors are cheaper than the railcom ones, you can save money by doing so. 

 

iTrain keeps track of trains by deduction.  If a Railcom fitted train was in (railcom-enabled) block A and it had instructed the train to drive to the adjacent (non-railcom) block B, that now being occupied with A now vacant, it knows what it sent it there, and will also deduce that it has reached block C when that in turn becomes occupied.  Every time the train enters a Railcom block, it just confirms what ITrain already knows.  You can fool it by "crane shunting", but as long as you use the system sensibly, it works.  You need to think about which of your blocks to fit with them - I would suggest the fiddle yard or loco shed if that's where you usually put locos back on the track after servicing etc.

 

One thing to note is that the resistance required to operate the Digikeijs Railcom detectors is a lot higher than you would need for just their non Railcom versions, and I believe the same applies to other brands.  That's a consideration to take into account if you are adding resistive axles to your wagons.

 

The other caveat with Railcom is that you do need to fit Railcom decoders in all of your locos if you want them all to be identified by the detectors.  If you only fit part of your fleet, ITrain will still work, but you will have to tell iTrain once where the non-Railcom locos are, and it will keep track of them as long you don't move things about with iTrain disconnected.

[That Model Railway Guy]

That's exactly the information I was looking for, thank you so much @Michael Hodgson for laying it out clearly 👍

 

Yes the plan was to have the fiddle yard fully railcom enabled and the scenic side of the layout without it. Good to know about it needing more resistance too. I'm planning to use the Roco detectors (mostly because that's what's available at the moment) but I'll be sure to take that into account.

 

99% of my decoders are Zimo so I should be fine on having railcom enabled locos - the two or three locos with different decoders will mostly likely be run infrequently and manually too.

 

Thanks again!