Why didn't the Welshpool & Llanfair acquire any Bowaters Locoso in 1969?

[Andy Kirkham]

When the Bowaters system closed down in 1969 it seems "obvious" that the W&LR would have purchased some of the surplus locos; I think at the time it only had Earl and Countess (and the useless Monarch), and a few years later they would start scouring the world for locos of the right gauge.

 

Was the W&L not interested in the Bowaters locos, or could they not afford them? Or what?

[DLT]

Interesting question, didn't the surplus locos from Sittingbourne go to Whipsnade?  Maybe they were in some way unsuitable for W&L?

I'm sure somebody on here can give us a fuller story, also that of Monarch on the W&L.

[sir douglas]

The Sittingbourne & Kemsley started in 1970

[009 micro modeller]

5 hours ago, Andy Kirkham said:

When the Bowaters system closed down in 1969 it seems "obvious" that the W&LR would have purchased some of the surplus locos; I think at the time it only had Earl and Countess (and the useless Monarch), and a few years later they would start scouring the world for locos of the right gauge.

 

Was the W&L not interested in the Bowaters locos, or could they not afford them? Or what?

As you note they had Monarch, itself a Bowaters loco, although perhaps it was felt that this would be less useful to Bowaters (and subsequently the preserved S&K) so it was let go more readily? I’m sure I’ve read somewhere about the reason why they didn’t buy other Bowaters locos but can’t remember the rationale.

 

Of course, some of the locos went to Whipsnade rather than staying for the S&K heritage line, which complicates that theory slightly anyway. Although on that note, while I like the Whipsnade line and the ex-Bowaters locos look good there I’ve always thought that they appear to be a slightly odd choice for such a set-up - the concept of a zoo railway was and is fairly well established and I think Whipsnade is pretty much unique in its use of full size, real steam locos (where a lot of similar lines are steam-outline diesel or are miniature lines, often to a smaller gauge). But why specifically choose 2’ 6” gauge and relatively unusual locos from a specific industrial system, unless it wasn’t a choice and they were just conveniently available at the time? The booklet I have on the Whipsnade line mentions that the carriages are built on the chassis of Bowaters paper wagons, I’ll have to find and re-read it to see what else it says.

 

Interestingly, although slightly off topic, I seem to remember there was a short piece in Narrow Gauge World a few months ago about new research that suggested that at one stage Bowaters had considered purchasing the W&L locos after that line was closed by BR.

[Andy Kirkham]

56 minutes ago, sir douglas said:

The Sittingbourne & Kemsley started in 1970

According to Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowaters_Paper_Railway four locos went to Whipsnade and six were retained for the Sittingbourne & Kemsley. Did the S&K really need six locos?  I'm just interested to know whether the W&L made attempts to buy any of them but were rebuffed or outbid; or were they just not interested in acquiring more locos at the time.

Edited July 4, 2023 by Andy Kirkham

[Andy Kirkham]

2 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

As you note they had Monarch, itself a Bowaters loco, although perhaps it was felt that this would be less useful to Bowaters (and subsequently the preserved S&K) so it was let go more readily?

 

Monarch had been sold to the W&L in 1966 when the system was still in full swing, so had evidently been written off as a white elephant by Bowaters quite early on.

[Andy Kirkham]

15 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

Interestingly, although slightly off topic, I seem to remember there was a short piece in Narrow Gauge World a few months ago about new research that suggested that at one stage Bowaters had considered purchasing the W&L locos after that line was closed by BR.

 

It would have been good if they'd purchased the Leek & Manifold locomotives in 1934.🙂

[papagolfjuliet]

On 04/07/2023 at 23:20, 009 micro modeller said:

the concept of a zoo railway was and is fairly well established and I think Whipsnade is pretty much unique in its use of full size, real steam locos

 

Whipsnade is unique in the UK, although the fairly new Pairi Daiza zoo in Belgium has a very impressive 2'/60cm line. https://www.pairidaiza.eu/en/activities/steam-train

[Andrew Charman]

In 1969 W&L members had discovered 699.01 and were in the process to acquire what was thought to be, and later proved to be, a highly useful heavy hauler for the line. At the time the W&L was a railway with very little spare cash and certainly trying to raise the funds for more than one locomotive at a time would have been thought impossible.

 

What is perhaps more interesting is, as related in a previous edition of Narrow Gauge World, that there is evidence that when the W&L closed in 1956 Bowaters looked seriously at acquiring its two Beyer Peacocks. If this sale had gone ahead then Monarch might never have been built while preservation of the W&L with no ready-available locos would have been a much ore daunting prospect.

[thirty2a]

On 04/07/2023 at 23:27, Andy Kirkham said:

 

Monarch had been sold to the W&L in 1966 when the system was still in full swing, so had evidently been written off as a white elephant by Bowaters quite early on.

Wasn't Monarch to heavy for the viaduct at Sittingbourne ? 

[009 micro modeller]

Actually I was reading somewhere the other day about an LCGB decision, when they took over what became the S&K, to slightly standardise the loco fleet (this obviously affecting which locos were retained and which moved to other lines, although I can’t remember the specifics). I’m not sure though if some of the locos were sold separately by Bowaters anyway.