HO Donford Junction & Beryl Inc. Mine No.3

[innocentman]

I have been on RMweb for many years and finally I'm going to start my first topic for my under construction Norfolk and Western Layout.

 

This is not my first adventure into the wonderful world of N& W Steam. Many years ago my brother had a layout called Crystal Creek on the exhibition circuit and I contributed to this (Mainly stock) and operated at exhibitions. A video below from 2010 shows a bit more of what we  achieved back then.

 

 

Now its my turn with assistance from my brother Ian. 

 

Ian is a bit of a genius when it comes to designing a layout and he uses a design package from the USA called 3rd Planit (https://www.eldoradosoft.com/)

 

Having moved house in 2021 I now have a garage with internal dimensions of 18 ft x 12 ft.. Those dimensions sounds great, but the garage is used for other things and has a fixed workbench among other things, so the available working dimension for a layout (internally) is 17ft x 8ft. I did also say to Ian that it was possible to extend the layout beyond the open garage door to make things a little more interesting. So after a couple of iterations and thoughts on operations we have arrived at the following: -

 

Low Level Section (Donford Junction and fiddle yards

 

 

High Level Section Beryl Inc. Mine No. 3

The Mine sits 6" above the fiddle yard and does involve a spiral to get up there.

 

Overall dimensions are 25ft x 6ft 8" as I managed to increase the width in the top right section by the boards fitting in between a couple of shelves!

 

I'm in the process of laying the first track on the first three boards that have been constructed, so hopefully I will have an update soon with some construction progress.

 

All the best 

 

Andrew

Edited August 1, 2023 by innocentman
Dimension corrected to as built size

[Nicktoix]

Looking forward to seeing the spiral

Nick

[innocentman]

Just now, Nicktoix said:

Looking forward to seeing the spiral

Nick

So am I 🫣

[Andy Ross]

This looks really good but what happened to the Dutch layout and the EM one.  

[innocentman]

5 minutes ago, Andy Ross said:

This looks really good but what happened to the Dutch layout and the EM one.  

Good question 🤔………

[Nicktoix]

Love the layout name. Very clever

 

Nick

[stivesnick]

I remember seeing the layout in the video at a show. Did that layout also have a high level line serving a coal mine?

 

Look forward to seeing how the layout develops.

 

Regards 

 

Nick 

[innocentman]

1 hour ago, stivesnick said:

I remember seeing the layout in the video at a show. Did that layout also have a high level line serving a coal mine?

 

It did Nick. However on Crystal Creek it was intended to extend the layout to have the mine connection meet the main lines. Alas space restrictions negated this possibility and the layout was dismantled a few years ago now.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[innocentman]

So over this weekend I have laid as much track on the first three boards that I can. Progress Pictures below: -

First up was to print out a full size jigsaw from 3rd Planit and stick them together. I placed few points on to align with the locations indicated as the tie bars to see what it looked like.

 

After a bit of marking out of the centre lines I started to lay the track onto cork roadbed. The cork is 4mm thick and comes in 300 mm x 300 mm sheets. Its self adhesive which is a bonus. The track is secured to the cork using Evo Stik (Other contact cements are available)

 

So by close of business on Sunday I had managed the following: -

 

Its amazing how much rubbish you accumulate on the top of the boards as you proceed! The beer fridge is easily accessible with the boards in this temp location 😉. Operational position will be right up to the red Shelves on the left.

 

In need to add a couple of custom pieces of point work before I can proceed with any further, one of which exists but is in Leeds 64 miles away, and the other Y point that kind of sits in the middle of the range of the two PECO options. I will go into more detail on the point construction as I cross that bridge later this week or weekend.

 

Andy

Edited July 10, 2023 by innocentman
Spelling

[Michael Edge]

You're not hanging about with this! When can we have at the exhibition?

[innocentman]

30 minutes ago, Michael Edge said:

You're not hanging about with this! When can we have at the exhibition?

😱 Can't believe you beat @Andy Ross to that one! Lets not be having these conversations yet please! 

 

Construction is subject to my carpenters availability

Edited July 13, 2023 by innocentman

[Michael Edge]

You have to have an incentive to get things finished.....

[St Enodoc]

4 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

You're not hanging about with this! When can we have at the exhibition?

In about three months...

[St Enodoc]

On 09/07/2023 at 03:36, Nicktoix said:

Love the layout name. Very clever

 

Nick

And a lovely way to remember and honour your folks.

[Andy Ross]

4 hours ago, innocentman said:

😱 Can't believe you beat @Andy Ross to that one! Lets not be having these conversations yet please! 

 

Construction is subject to my carpenters availability

 

It thought about it, but with my track record of getting layouts finished, I thought better of it. 

[innocentman]

Spent a little time last night working up a control panel diagram on AutoCAD for the Donford Junction section and storage yards.

 

The different colours denote different power districts (did I mention this was going to be a DCC layout? 🤔)

 

The small circles will be green indicator lights showing the set route.

 

The square boxes with a cross and circle denote the locations of the toggle switches to operate the points. The switch positions are set not print except for the hole to drill for the switch. The box is only there to ensure spacing between the switches and no clashes. These are numbered to match the numbering on the  track plan. I will have to think about number 7 & 8 once I have the track laid as they are effectively 2 crossovers.

 

I will work on the mine panel later today

 

Andy

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, innocentman said:

Spent a little time last night working up a control panel diagram on AutoCAD for the Donford Junction section and storage yards.

 

The different colours denote different power districts (did I mention this was going to be a DCC layout? 🤔)

 

The small circles will be green indicator lights showing the set route.

 

The square boxes with a cross and circle denote the locations of the toggle switches to operate the points. The switch positions are set not print except for the hole to drill for the switch. The box is only there to ensure spacing between the switches and no clashes. These are numbered to match the numbering on the  track plan. I will have to think about number 7 & 8 once I have the track laid as they are effectively 2 crossovers.

 

I will work on the mine panel later today

 

Andy

Make sure you get the reverse loop and wye wiring right. Whatever method you use to reverse the polarity, the reversing sections need to be longer than the longest train that will use them, to avoid short circuits (but you knew that already of course...).

 

I think I'd work 7 as a crossover, as you've drawn it, but leave 8 as a simple turnout.

[innocentman]

3 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

I think I'd work 7 as a crossover, as you've drawn it, but leave 8 as a simple turnout.

 

I think you are correct. The LED indicators will be via feed back from the point motor to the panel so I can wire it up so that only when 7 and 8 align correctly that the LED will illuminate.

[Barry O]

ah.. very good but will it have more Tribbles?

 

Baz

[innocentman]

2 hours ago, Barry O said:

ah.. very good but will it have more Tribbles?

 

Baz

Of course 

[298]

20 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Make sure you get the reverse loop and wye wiring right. Whatever method you use to reverse the polarity, the reversing sections need to be longer than the longest train that will use them, to avoid short circuits (but you knew that already of course..)

 

Certainly for DC, DCC can be less constrained but the belt and braces method would be the same. In theory it only needs to be as long as the length between the vehicles with pickups (such as the combined length of a double header or top and tail formation, as you can mitigate against individual vehicles bridging the gap by using insulated rail joiners with a raised section so metal wheelsets can't bridge the gap.

[innocentman]

1 hour ago, 298 said:

 

Certainly for DC, DCC can be less constrained but the belt and braces method would be the same. In theory it only needs to be as long as the length between the vehicles with pickups (such as the combined length of a double header or top and tail formation, as you can mitigate against individual vehicles bridging the gap by using insulated rail joiners with a raised section so metal wheelsets can't bridge the gap.

I like the idea of the insulated rail joiners. Thanks.

 

The plan is to try two Auto frog juicers between points 12 and 15 on the front of the layout. I only have to worry about a single loco or small fright, no double headers or pushers. This particular section is more for turning the loco when it comes back down from the mine.

 

The fiddle yard return loops are easily big enough for a full length train so no worries on those sections

 

Regards

 

Andy

[innocentman]

Bit wet in Morecambe today so ideal opportunity to build the custom Y point in the comfort of the work room. I have built quite a bit of copper clad track work over the years but not for about 20 years. A bit out of practice but keen to get stuck in. This point however is the first one I have ever done in flat bottom rail! Will it be the last!

 

First up using the print from 3rd Planit stock on the copper clad sleepers. I have had a pack of sleeper strip the correct width (well same width as Peco sleepers) for years. Finally putting them to use

 

 

Next up one of the stock rails with a recess filed in for the toe of the switch blade.

 

 

with the stock rail tacked in position time for the frog. This took a bit of filing on the foot of the rail to get it to mate up correctly 

 

 

no we are cooking, second stock rail attached and first wing rail, followed by the second. A little notch as cut into the foot of the wing rails with a grinding disk on the inside of where I wanted to put the bend in. Makes for a sharper bend.

 

 

Onto the blades. I was expecting these to be a pain to file but I found I could easily clamp the rail in my bench vice at an angle an file down to the jaws. Little bit of post vice tweaking and we have them installed.

 

 

The gap between the point blade and stock rail was set using a 20p piece. Check rails were added, and done in a fashion so as to match the Peco points.

 

 

I gapped the sleepers, tested it electrically to ensure no shorts and gave it a good scrub to remove any flux residue. Ready to go on the layout

 

Andy

 

 

 

Edited July 15, 2023 by innocentman
Removed a duplicate picture or 2

[St Enodoc]

6 hours ago, innocentman said:

Bit wet in Morecambe today so ideal opportunity to build the custom Y point in the comfort of the work room. I have built quite a bit of copper clad track work over the years but not for about 20 years. A bit out of practice but keen to get stuck in. This point however is the first one I have ever done in flat bottom rail! Will it be the last!

 

First up using the print from 3rd Planit stock on the copper clad sleepers. I have had a pack of sleeper strip the correct width (well same width as Peco sleepers) for years. Finally putting them to use

 

 

Next up one of the stock rails with a recess filed in for the toe of the switch blade.

 

 

with the stock rail tacked in position time for the frog. This took a bit of filing on the foot of the rail to get it to mate up correctly 

 

 

no we are cooking, second stock rail attached and first wing rail, followed by the second. A little notch as cut into the foot of the wing rails with a grinding disk on the inside of where I wanted to put the bend in. Makes for a sharper bend.

 

 

Onto the blades. I was expecting these to be a pain to file but I found I could easily clamp the rail in my bench vice at an angle an file down to the jaws. Little bit of post vice tweaking and we have them installed.

 

 

The gap between the point blade and stock rail was set using a 20p piece. Check rails were added, and done in a fashion so as to match the Peco points.

 

 

I gapped the sleepers, tested it electrically to ensure no shorts and gave it a good scrub to remove any flux residue. Ready to go on the layout

 

Andy

 

 

 

Nice. I've never built a flat-bottom point and, fortunately, I'll probably never need to!

[Michael Edge]

I have, all the Overhead is flat bottom, it's a lot more difficult than bullhead.