An Ode to The Primrose Line

[LittleWesternModelRailway]

Well, the time has finally come to dip my toes back into the deep end. Here at the ripe ol' age of 30 (shut up I know :D ) I have set myself the life long task to recreate The Kingsbridge Branch aka 'The Primrose Line' in all it's majesty. Arming myself with endless piles of books, a mountain for forum pages and a sea of reference links I am to create as accurate a recreation of each station along the line as possible. (Although.... I'm not starting with a station this year).

Having been umming and ahhhing over how and what to build for the past year and getting very little done in the process, I finally settled on a small industrial yard set on a small GWR run branchline somewhere in South Devon. Heralding back to my youth on the SDR and the Exeter to Dawlish route, it had to be GWR and range from grouping to nationalisation so I can run whatever I want and it still fit. After several hours reading, scouring google maps and references I settled on Brent - Kingsbridge, the short 12miles or so with plenty of modelling potential and a plac along the line my fictional industry could sit comfortably. Now to get building!

Reading material currently includes:

• GWR Switch and Crossing Practise
• The Kingsbridge Branch - Ken Williams and Dermot Reynolds
• An Historical Survey of Selected Great Western Stations Layouts and Illustrations Vol2

 

Any other reference books, please comment and I will add the to the list! Specifically on trackwork practice along the branch and Brent Junction itself!

So, my industry will be a fictional brickworks roughly halfway between Avonwick and Gara Bridge stations in the place of the old Oakenham Quarry (which I believe didn't last long past the 1910s so seemed the right place. of course with a small bit of compression and terraforming (artistic licensing and Rule 1 com into play in this case). Using Templot, I came up with a short 2600 x 600mm trackplan and using the amazing tools at it's disposal set it up using predetermined GWT Old Type turnouts for the yard itself and a short incline to provide context of depth and the area once being a quarry. It's far from typical but I like it and think it will fit in with the overall picture quite nicely.

 

As above, the main branch moves along the back and from the turnout on the right side will raise slowly to around 35-38mm above the main yard.

I plan to hand lay everything, and I mean everything on the branchline, so this small section will be a test if I have the patience and can develop the skills required. Following guidance from others more knowledgeable than myself (and I admit, some curiosity on my part) I have opted for the following to comprise all trackwork:

• OO-SF measurements - So I don't have to rewheel everything :D
• C&L NiHi Code 75 Flexi lengths
• C&L/Exactoscale 2 Bolt Running Chairs
• Masokits Etched Turnout Frets (including Tiebars) Oh what fun I'm in for!

 

The idea is to try and follow GWR practices and odd differences and such as much as possible. So plenty more research to be conducted, but for basic trackwork I feel comfortable to start!

This weeks job list:

• Follow Scalefour Magazine article and create a Turnout Switch Blade and Crossing Filing Jig
• Lay the Sidings up to the turnouts
• Cut the foamboard to make the incline!

Any suggestions, questions of comments, please voice them I am here to learn and if you thing I've made a booboo of got my facts wrong on the line (I will try to reference these where possible)

Many thanks!
James - LWR

[gwrrob]

Following with interest James @LittleWesternModelRailway ,see my thread on the mainline bit you're modelling but I have numerous photos of every station on this much missed branch, 60 years in October since its closure. There's plenty of knowledgeable members on here for tapping into information.

[LittleWesternModelRailway]

Thanks @gwrrob I've been following your thread in the background for sometime now and it's one of my many bookmarks! Eventually I will get to the junction but who knows when! :D

Appreciate your cander, I will reach out for reference photos no doubt!

[LittleWesternModelRailway]

Some progress over the weekend was made... First Siding of the layout was laid (preliminary as I still haven't pre-painted sleepers) But it went well

Taking a few hours slowly but surely I managed to get a smooth run with bogie and wagon so I am thus far happy.

 

Using the C&L chairs with poly cement works wonders, a small dab on the underside and held firm for a few moment and bam.. A decent connection that time and use will determined 😁

I used 2 TriGauges and 2 roller gauges... This section has taught me I need more so DCC Concepts here I come...

On to the next task for this week. Get paint and mass weather sleepers! 

 

In other news I also created a Filing Jig for Switch Blades as detailed in a ScaleFour article (amended to GWR Old Type switch planing lengths) But I looked forward to my first Turnout... 

 

 

ToBeContinued...

 

[LittleWesternModelRailway]

So wenare almost at the end of August and little has happened and I dare say a slight step back has occurred, for the better! 

 

I'll start with Exactoscale sleepers.... I painted 500 of them and I think they look the part, needing a slight grey-white drybrush when insitu.

 

Now I have started trackwork but I am not ready to share that, just yet... 😁

 

Next I stood back and tore up the foam board I had installed... I want to create individual scenic elements and work on the off the layout and the affix them in place, so back to bare baseboard it was...

 

Next, the biggest change, the incline. 

The Kingsbridge Line had a range of rises and falls, maxing out at 1:50 at two points before and after Sorley Tunnel (according to my book).

Between Avonwick and Gara Bridge (roughly 4 miles down the line) the max it hit falling was 1:100.. If I did that you wouldn't see it! So I did 1:64 instead 😂 Imight even bump to the 1:54 for more visual change.

I also tested the scale height from yard rail to branch rail... Works out a rough scale of 11'3" or 3.45m which is pretty good I think. Putting the top of the 28xx here about half way up the 57xx... Pretty good I think and subtle... What do you think?

Next month I will aim to get all the trackwork down, including my first turnouts... I have created the V-Crossing and Switch blades for all of them, just need to get to grips with the Masokits Brass Chair Frets!

 

Onwards and Upwards!

 

[stivesnick]

Hi 

 

A couple of questions / observations about the operation of this layout.

 

1. If the local goods train running left to right on the layout, stops on the " main line" to shunt the brink works, will the wagons run down the hill as soon as the loco is detached? I am sure experts on GWR operation may point to a maximum gradient that allows wagons to be left unattended. 

 

2. Do you intend shunting the yard for goods trains running right to left? The train would still be in the right hand fiddle yard. If not then the short run around loop is not needed.

 

3. Will the brick yard have its own shunter? 

 

Hope these comments are helpful.

 

Regards 

 

Nick 

[Captain Kernow]

On 24/07/2023 at 18:27, LittleWesternModelRailway said:

 

• OO-SF measurements - So I don't have to rewheel everything

Hi James,

 

What a super project!

 

I can see that you are adopting high standards from the outset, which is very good, but please let me share a serious note of caution.

 

Beware OO-SF!!!

 

Just because it is still 'OO' does NOT mean that all RTR wheels will run through the point work!

 

When I built Bethesda Sidings, I mostly used pointwork that I already had 'in stock' from other projects that didn't materialise. However, I needed to build an A5 crossover and decided to do this in OO-SF.

 

I have built many points over the years, both in 'OO finescale' and in P4 and I took a lot of care with this A5 crossover, ensuring that the gauge and flangeway clearances were correct, using multiple gauges etc.

 

Most of the locos I was planning to use on Bethesda Sidings run on etched chassis with Markits or turned Romford drivers. The crossover was tested on the bench, prior to being laid on the layout and everything that I wanted to us, went through it with no problem.

 

The crossover was duly laid on the layout, ballasted, painted etc. and the layout eventually finished.

 

Over time, I started trying other locos on the layout, that I hadn't initially envisaged using and I found that several manufacturers RTR wheel standards absolutely did NOT like the OO-SF crossover, either running through straight or via the sharp A5 curve.

 

Some Hornby was OK (eg W4 Peckett) but the larger flanges and different wheel profile on the B2 Peckett did not like it.

 

Some Bachmann flanges were OK, certainly a pannier and an 08 were fine.

 

A Heljan Hymek and Class 33 didn't like it (these were re-wheeled using Branchlines 'Black Beetle' coach wheels and they are now fine).

 

One bitter blow was when I tried a brand new Planet Industrials Kerr Stuart 0-6-0T on it. The wheels seem to have slightly wider flanges and this loco definitely doesn't like the crossover. I've had indifferent results with Rapido as well (although both locos were sent away again for different reasons).

 

The bitterest blow of all came last week, when my Accurascale Manor got into trouble. It seems to have the same flange profile as Planet Industrials. As such, it cannot be used on the layout and I will not be completely disrupting the layout in order to rebuilt the crossover, just for the sake of a couple of locos.

 

There is (hopefully) a fairly easy cure for the Kerr Stuart, because that has 3mm axles, so I have a set of Markits wheels and 3mm axles to replace the Pi wheels.

 

The Manor is a different and more complex beast altogether and I don't relish having to re-wheel it. In fact, I will not be doing that and my thoughts are turning once again to see whether it can be converted to P4.

 

I'm not advising you to turn your back on OO-SF. It is a clever idea and the point work does look good. But one of the problems with 'finescale OO' is the complete lack of wheel and track standards within the industry. I know there's the 'Double O Gauge Association' and I'm not knocking them, but one of the advantages I have found with P4 is the universally consistent standards.

 

I'd advise testing all locos that you may use on the layout over your first turnout built to OO-SF standards. Just be careful!

 

All the locos that had problems with my crossover had correct back-to-backs, in case anyone is wondering and I am as confident as I can be that the point work was built absolutely correctly to the gauges.

 

Good luck with the project.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by Captain Kernow

[LittleWesternModelRailway]

17 hours ago, stivesnick said:

Hi 

 

A couple of questions / observations about the operation of this layout.

 

1. If the local goods train running left to right on the layout, stops on the " main line" to shunt the brink works, will the wagons run down the hill as soon as the loco is detached? I am sure experts on GWR operation may point to a maximum gradient that allows wagons to be left unattended. 

 

2. Do you intend shunting the yard for goods trains running right to left? The train would still be in the right hand fiddle yard. If not then the short run around loop is not needed.

 

3. Will the brick yard have its own shunter? 

 

Hope these comments are helpful.

 

Regards 

 

Nick 

Hi Nick,

Some very valid questions! 

1. Honestly not sure this kind of yard would exist on a short branch like this. it's more Rule 1 than typical in terms of its operation and location but I have thought about "correct operations" My idea would be that on the given day, the brickworks would have it's own engine shunt wagon around and then hope down the 3 mile strech to Garabridge where the only 2 line section is, allowing wagons to be added to the "Up" train. Then it would return.
Or the "Up" goods would halt at Gara bridge (where there is a rather large goods siding on relative flat ground), leave it's train and light engine up to the yard, grab ready wagons and return.

2. I put the run around in as there is a kick back coal merchants and and down goods specifically for the yard might need to reverse in and then shunt coal wagons into the siding. Plus it was more a scenic element. I did think weather it was required or not and honestly I am still debating it!
3. Typically, no i doubt it would have it's own shunter.... in my world yes! :D a small 48ds/1361/1366 or other industrial will always be on yard.

There are many non typical elements on this layout, but for me, it's just a proof of concept into track building etc and some fun :)

Thanks for your comments, really appreciate it! 

James

[LittleWesternModelRailway]

11 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

Hi James,

 

What a super project!

 

I can see that you are adopting high standards from the outset, which is very good, but please let me share a serious note of caution.

 

Beware OO-SF!!!

 

Just because it is still 'OO' does NOT mean that all RTR wheels will run through the point work!

 

When I built Bethesda Sidings, I mostly used pointwork that I already had 'in stock' from other projects that didn't materialise. However, I needed to build an A5 crossover and decided to do this in OO-SF.

 

I have built many points over the years, both in 'OO finescale' and in P4 and I took a lot of care with this A5 crossover, ensuring that the gauge and flangeway clearances were correct, using multiple gauges etc.

 

Most of the locos I was planning to use on Bethesda Sidings run on etched chassis with Markits or turned Romford drivers. The crossover was tested on the bench, prior to being laid on the layout and everything that I wanted to us, went through it with no problem.

 

The crossover was duly laid on the layout, ballasted, painted etc. and the layout eventually finished.

 

Over time, I started trying other locos on the layout, that I hadn't initially envisaged using and I found that several manufacturers RTR wheel standards absolutely did NOT like the OO-SF crossover, either running through straight or via the sharp A5 curve.

 

Some Hornby was OK (eg W4 Peckett) but the larger flanges and different wheel profile on the B2 Peckett did not like it.

 

Some Bachmann flanges were OK, certainly a pannier and an 08 were fine.

 

A Heljan Hymek and Class 33 didn't like it (these were re-wheeled using Branchlines 'Black Beetle' coach wheels and they are now fine).

 

One bitter blow was when I tried a brand new Planet Industrials Kerr Stuart 0-6-0T on it. The wheels seem to have slightly wider flanges and this loco definitely doesn't like the crossover. I've had indifferent results with Rapido as well (although both locos were sent away again for different reasons).

 

The bitterest blow of all came last week, when my Accurascale Manor got into trouble. It seems to have the same flange profile as Planet Industrials. As such, it cannot be used on the layout and I will not be completely disrupting the layout in order to rebuilt the crossover, just for the sake of a couple of locos.

 

There is (hopefully) a fairly easy cure for the Kerr Stuart, because that has 3mm axles, so I have a set of Markits wheels and 3mm axles to replace the Pi wheels.

 

The Manor is a different and more complex beast altogether and I don't relish having to re-wheel it. In fact, I will not be doing that and my thoughts are turning once again to see whether it can be converted to P4.

 

I'm not advising you to turn your back on OO-SF. It is a clever idea and the point work does look good. But one of the problems with 'finescale OO' is the complete lack of wheel and track standards within the industry. I know there's the 'Double O Gauge Association' and I'm not knocking them, but one of the advantages I have found with P4 is the universally consistent standards.

 

I'd advise testing all locos that you may use on the layout over your first turnout built to OO-SF standards. Just be careful!

 

All the locos that had problems with my crossover had correct back-to-backs, in case anyone is wondering and I am as confident as I can be that the point work was built absolutely correctly to the gauges.

 

Good luck with the project.

 

 

 

 

 

Many thanks for your input, I must admit "So I don't have to rewheel everything" is a bit naive in this industry :D I debated P4, I really did, but I have a friend locally who is building a very large Coventry - Leamington Spa - Nuneaton section of the LMS with OO RTR trackwork.... this clinched it for me as I can still go there and play trains while having my own more typical project at home. I may dabble in P4 later on but for now I am set.
As you say different manufacturers have different standards etc and I completely agree! I plan to test everything over and over again to get it right. Even locos that wouldn't be seen on this branch (like the accura manor, Hornby King and such. I'm quite lucky that these points are relatively simple and copy/paste so as long as I keep to my own exacting standards I can minimise the risk on my end. 

Right now I plan on using Hornby Ruston 48ds, Heljan 1366 and Heljan/Kernow 1361 (But anything will be used and tested exuberantly before any scenic work will start) 

Some great food for thought that will for sure come in handy when it comes to Brent! the west junction is a spaghetti of double slips,  turnouts and catch-points!

Cheers,
James

[stivesnick]

James 

 

On the St Ives (Cambs) to Ely line, very much a secondary route, there was a brick works siding located between the villages of Sutton and Haddenham.  The Isle of Ely brick works was only open for around 20 years and was just a single siding but there is prototype to follow!

 

Information from the Ely and St Ives Railway by Oakwood press - words only no photos.

 

Regards 

 

Nick

 

 

[LittleWesternModelRailway]

1 hour ago, stivesnick said:

James 

 

On the St Ives (Cambs) to Ely line, very much a secondary route, there was a brick works siding located between the villages of Sutton and Haddenham.  The Isle of Ely brick works was only open for around 20 years and was just a single siding but there is prototype to follow!

 

Information from the Ely and St Ives Railway by Oakwood press - words only no photos.

 

Regards 

 

Nick

 

 

 

Many thanks Nick, I will take a look! If there is a prototype then I feel a bit better. Perhaps I can research and copy their practises!

[LittleWesternModelRailway]

Found it, seems it was directly on the line with access also coming from one direction on a single line. Good to know

 

[Captain Kernow]

2 hours ago, LittleWesternModelRailway said:

I debated P4, I really did, but I have a friend locally who is building a very large Coventry - Leamington Spa - Nuneaton section of the LMS with OO RTR trackwork.... this clinched it for me as I can still go there and play trains while having my own more typical project at home. I may dabble in P4 later on but for now I am set.

P4 has it's advantages, to be sure, but despite whatever anyone says, it is more work than finescale OO.

 

But the main reason I wrote what I did was not to indulge in some 'pro-P4 propaganda', but rather to warn you of the limitations of OO-SF, in the context of differing OO RTR wheel standards.

 

2 hours ago, LittleWesternModelRailway said:

I plan to test everything over and over again to get it right

That is a very sound philosophy.

 

I just fear that having built one or several points to OO-SF standards, you may find that, during the testing phase, some of your chosen RTR locos won't be happy running over them, leading you to a difficult choice - abandon using those given locos or re-wheeling them or changing the track standards.

 

Of course, if this is a 'lifetime project', it's not really feasible at this stage to forsee exactly what types of locos and stock you may wish to run on it in (say) 25 years time.

 

One thing that I've found with the 'conventional finescale OO' standards that I normally use is that although the flangeway clearances are marginally wider (and the gauge is 16.5mm and not 16.2mm), there is no type of RTR flange hitherto used that doesn't like running through them.

 

[LittleWesternModelRailway]

Appreciate your thoughts Kernow, there may come a time where I have to rewheel etc but when that comes I hope to be more knowledgeable and prepared to do so :) With all things, there are unforeseen circumstances, the best we can do is hope for the best and prepare for the worst! An example is the Heljan 1366 I currently have, I am in the process of sound fitting and the performance is awful, the pickups were bent out of shape, one of the axles looks bent and getting replacments from gaugemaster is not possible, they've ran out!

All in good time though, plenty to come!

Thanks,

James

[LittleWesternModelRailway]

So I am back, having made little to no progress on the layout in the last month, due to good weather and several family visits.... and if I am honest, a lack of Mojo.. But I managed to knuckle down and create the first of 6 turnouts for the layout:

 

A recreation of a 10ft Old Type GWR turnout with the main branch off to the right heading up the incline and entrance to the brickworks on the left. It was a difficult build and is not "perfect" but it (so far) runs smooth with current rolling stock and locos. A combination of Exactoscale/C&L plastic chairs and Masokits brass chairs too (very fiddly indeed) but gave me an enjoyable 2 days on and off to build.

Definitely a learning curve when it comes to creating crossing vees etc and I still need to attach check rails and some of the last chairs but structurally it seems sound. So for now I am satisfied and ready to get on with it! The turnouts are the last trackwork to be completed before I can lay the track permanently. So the push is on!