DB withdraws last of its Class 90s

[Nova Scotian]

Couldn't see this posted elsewhere.

 

This tweet went past my feed today - a screenshare of a DB article stating they have stored the last of their class 90s due to high electricity costs, and are looking at disposal options.

 

https://twitter.com/pipdunn/status/1683496922189910020/photo/1

They state of the 24 Class 90s on DB Cargo's books half have been stored between 5-20 years.

 

This mirrors the Freightliner decision too.

To me this is disappointing and demonstrates that the market has not appropriately priced carbon, and the deregulation of the utilities obviously couldn't hold up to the market strain of an event like Ukraine (not surprising given the government's lack of investment in energy storage - despite being told since the mid 2000s this would be a problem...).

 

I have a soft spot for the 90s having done Norwich -> Liverpool Street regularly.

[Benjamin Brady]

For a country that does seem to have a high green agenda this feels like a backwards steps. 

 

However in the grand scheme it shall go unnoticed by the mainstream media as a train still takes x amount of wagons off the road but again the service is still not used to the extend it could be. 

 

I'm all for electrification and this demonstrates as a country we are not really that interested on a whole in it, for the few serviced that require the wires to run. 

 

Scotland have had the most foresight in electrification even wiring grangemouth, however the db 90s won't be gracing that route any more 

[ClikC]

7 hours ago, Nova Scotian said:

To me this is disappointing and demonstrates that the market has not appropriately priced carbon, and the deregulation of the utilities obviously couldn't hold up to the market strain of an event like Ukraine (not surprising given the government's lack of investment in energy storage Nuclear Power - despite being told since the mid 2000s 1980s this would be a problem...).

 

Fixed it.

Edited July 25, 2023 by ClikC

[Pete the Elaner]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Brady said:

For a country that does seem to have a high green agenda this feels like a backwards steps. 

 

and are looking at disposal options

 

It is hypocritical & I feel, criminal.

It is cheaper to produce electricity in large quantities then distribute. It is also possible to switch sources where appropriate or possible (Coal/waste/nuclear/wind/wave).

A government who claims to be encouraging people & businesses to go green should absolutely be getting involved with this....& the opposition should be calling them out on it.

 

By disposing, DB are also looking to make this irreversible because there do not seem to have been any new orders placed.

Are the 90s life expired? The 66s are only 10 years newer.

[woodenhead]

Half of it's fleet have been stored for years, doesn't sound like a key piece of motive power for DB when they have more than enough class 66s.

 

Remember this was the company that in a previous guise refused flatly to sell perfectly serviceable locomotives to stifle competition.

 

How much actual traffic does DB have that could be electrically hauled to justify maintaining a fleet not including those it had leased out to other operators?

 

It's a business decision and reflects perhaps more on the Government's lack of progress in creating the electric spine.  Also with the class 93 and 99 coming to the UK then opportunities to lease it's 90s are going to reduce, the newer locos will be in better condition and go anywhere.

 

I see that Freightliner is still using it's class 90s or has something else been announced, maybe they will buy them up for parts and some additional motive power.

 

Or they wil go to Bulgaria..

[Pete the Elaner]

44 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

 

It's a business decision and reflects perhaps more on the Government's lack of progress in creating the electric spine.  

 

 

I do not blame the operators at all. The government should either have a policy or not. By claiming to be working to reduce carbon emissions, they have made it a policy & have cited electricity as their choice of cleaner energy. They should therefore be working to make electric the preferred traction.

It should not be difficult either. It is cheaper to generate in bulk & distribute than it is to generate on board a locomotive using a diesel engine.

[Nova Scotian]

Thread on Freightliner storing their 90s: 

 

Per other comments lots of failings and factors here:

- Slow electrification, no confidence in a plan to deliver electrification - so limited utility of electric freight (eg. fast container freight a 90 can pull you're not going into Felixstowe!)

- Refusal of successive UK governments to structure low cost, resilient baseload generation to support electrification

- Failure of governments, but especially the last twelve years, to make strategic investments in grid and gas storage that would have mitigated price shocks since February 2022.

- Failure of governments to make and implement both policy and regulation to set the conditions for greater electrification and use of electric

- Arrival of class 93s and 99s a challenge to remaining class 90 moves, particularly as they'll be significantly more flexible in operation (can run longer stretches not under the wires, such as Felixstowe)

 

It's utter madness to me that we have so many freight diagrams running diesel under the wires. The grid is easier to decarbonize than a locomotive (can only go so far with biofuels and/hydrogen currently), and the point source emissions of particulates etc are undesirable compared to the alternative.

 

We've seen this was the 92s too. And in the passenger world the unsuccessful 769s. 

 

[woodenhead]

@Nova Scotian But most of that with Freightliner was back when the prices of electricity were soaring, they are using them again now, it's the older clas 86s that have been exported which is probably right as they are 60s technology and maybe Freightliner have their eye on the DB 90s.....

 

It's DB that are currently letting go the 90s because they have no use for them.

 

However, as everyone is saying, until Government policy works in favour of more electrification then much of the route mileage of container traffic is going to be away from wires and whilst that remains the case then the case for diesel haulage remains strong from a business perspective otherwise you have to change traction.

 

At the end of the day a bi-mode or tri-mode train is the railway solution to the Government not wiring up the railway, but is also a get out of jail card for the Government as now it doesn't have to.

 

It's like we don't want to spend much money on the Oxford Rd corridor, so railways you need to find a way to introduce cab signalling to a stretch of line about 2 miles long that can be used by Northern, Avanti, TPE, East Midlands(or whatever they now go by), Freightliner, GBRF, and DB.  Or we don't want to have to do a complicated piece of engineering at Standedge Tunnel to wire it, so railways every electric train on the TransPennine corridor after electrification will have to be bi or tri mode to run through the tunnel on diesel or even better batteries.

 

I see some investment is now being proposed for Oxford road including resignalling (not cab signalling from what I can see), but I still see no solution to Standedge Tunnel.  Interesting Lords debate transcription here about the shambles of electrification and high speed routes

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/lords/?id=2021-12-16a.494.1

 

 

[adb968008]

20 hours ago, Nova Scotian said:

Couldn't see this posted elsewhere.

 

This tweet went past my feed today - a screenshare of a DB article stating they have stored the last of their class 90s due to high electricity costs, and are looking at disposal options.

 

https://twitter.com/pipdunn/status/1683496922189910020/photo/1

They state of the 24 Class 90s on DB Cargo's books half have been stored between 5-20 years.

 

This mirrors the Freightliner decision too.

To me this is disappointing and demonstrates that the market has not appropriately priced carbon, and the deregulation of the utilities obviously couldn't hold up to the market strain of an event like Ukraine (not surprising given the government's lack of investment in energy storage - despite being told since the mid 2000s this would be a problem...).

 

I have a soft spot for the 90s having done Norwich -> Liverpool Street regularly.

or could it be that due to Ukraine war theres an urgent need for traction in the Balkans area to move freight originating from the border, a shortage of locos and a high price valuation for compatible types.

The Flt 86’s have gone, the 90’s could be very attractive right now and worth the most they ever will be.

 

Shut them down, cash them out quick, blame it on British politics, curry favour in Europe.

 

Down the road when there is no AC traction and the govt wants to meet targets, out will come the begging bowl looking for a subsidy to buy new traction and modernise.. but you cant do that with a siding fully of AC traction already in hand.

 

Nice fleet of Siemens Vectrons in UK gauge would be nice, theyve already been tested through the tunnel so could replace a 92 easy enough on HS1 and DB has a few 92’s to shift too.

Edited July 25, 2023 by adb968008