Peco Electrofrog Point Wiring Test - Please Help! (Apologies for the repost)

[CallingAtGreatDestinations]

Hello, I am a fairly novice modeler and I have decided to dip my toe into wiring. I have rigged up a wiring setup which utilizes the Peco PL-10E, PL-9, PL-13, and PL-26B, along with a medium radius Peco Electrofrog point. I have followed the steps of the Dean Park YouTube channel, and modified the point as shown. I am very confused as to how I am meant to continue, as my first arrangements have not worked. I cannot get the point motor to move. This is simply an exercise that I wanted to try before I wire up my DCC layout.

I am also confused about the power source for the point motor, as I was under the impression that the point received power from the tracks.


Again, I am very new to this, so patience is appreciated.

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Have you got a CDU for the point motor? seems to be conspicuous by it's absence.

 

Mike.

 

[smokebox]

Point motors need a separate power supply, they are not normally powered from the track.

 

Some dc controllers have auxiliary (accessory) power outlets which can be used to power points.

 

You may want to have a read of Brian Lambert's website https://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/Electrical_Page_1.html

Edited July 25, 2023 by smokebox

[mezzoman253]

Hi,

The controller feeds DCC power plus the DCC signals, to the track, to power the loco decoders and also  accessory decoders(if you decide to use them). Some types of accessory decoder are available to power and switch points.

 

However that is not the only way to switch points, and it can become expensive. An alternative is to run the point motors from a separate supply. Sometimes this is desirable as too many accessory decoders can take power from the controller leaving not enough for the loco's to be controlled.

 

From your pictures you appear to have set the points up as "DCC friendly" which will aid smoother running. That's good.

 

One wire, red or black in your case needs to go to the outer rail and the other of the two goes to the other outer rail. Feed them at the toe end of the point(Narrow end). The frog (green wire) needs to change polarity dependent on which way the point is set, you need a switch to do that. This is usually attached to the point motor and as the point motor throws, the switch changes the polarity of the frog over.

 

That covers the track feed and polarity switching, but you also need to power the point motor, and, a separate switch to throw the point motor(PL26B), which in turn moves the switch attached to the point motor to change polarity over. You seem to have all the components to achieve this, except for a PSU for the points power.

 

Hopefully that helps a bit, but I second the recommendation of studying Brian Lamberts' webpages site, as mentioned in the previous post. The diagrams and pictures there are very helpful.

 

It took me a while to get my head around it when I first started in DCC, but take your time and you'll get there.

 

Good luck, Rob

 

 

[ITG]

You can power the point motor from DCC track power, though there are downsides to do so. What you don’t mention, and I cannot see in your photo is a decoder. If you are using the DCC power, then to throw the point motor, it has to have an addressed decoder if you wish to use the DCC controller.

Ian

[Pete the Elaner]

Many find electrics an unwanted necessity. You are certainly not alone.

Unless I am seeing things incorrectly, it looks like you have connected the frog section to the point motor coils. This is wrong.

The unshielded wire from the point needs to connect to one of the side rails (depending on which way the point is thrown, so it needs to be via a switch). The brown block on the bottom of the motor is designed for this. The other 2 terminals on the switch need to go to the rails.

The motor is a twin solenoid so needs a connection to 1 of the coils for a very short time in order to pull the pin across. The green wire needs to go to a terminal of a power supply (this can be AC or DC. A Capacitor Discharge Unit (CDU) is helpful but not essential).

The 2 connections on the other side of the motor go to a switch of some sort, which needs to provide a very short burst of current. This can be as simple as touching the correct 2 wires together, often in the case of a control panel, touching a stud with a probe.

[Graham108]

As a novice to all the electrical stuff I'd say the layout in your first photo is extremely ambitious. If I was you I'd start off with a simple oval of track with a single point - work out the wiring for the track & the point. Then add a 2nd point to make a loop.  And only when you've got it all working and able to run trains should you then expand to something a bit more complex.

[Pete the Elaner]

3 hours ago, Graham108 said:

As a novice to all the electrical stuff I'd say the layout in your first photo is extremely ambitious. If I was you I'd start off with a simple oval of track with a single point - work out the wiring for the track & the point. Then add a 2nd point to make a loop.  And only when you've got it all working and able to run trains should you then expand to something a bit more complex.

 

I have got into the habit of isolating & re-feeding after every point. I picked up the habit after getting into DCC, but I found it works just as well for DC. Having small sections makes it easy to understand & troubleshoot, but there are just a lot of small sections, so more wires.

 

I still agree with you that small, simple layouts are the best way to start. Another advantage is that seeing it work for the first time gives your modelling motivation a huge boost. You get to this a lot more quickly with a small, simple layout.

[Harlequin]

8 hours ago, Graham108 said:

As a novice to all the electrical stuff I'd say the layout in your first photo is extremely ambitious. If I was you I'd start off with a simple oval of track with a single point - work out the wiring for the track & the point. Then add a 2nd point to make a loop.  And only when you've got it all working and able to run trains should you then expand to something a bit more complex.

 

5 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

I have got into the habit of isolating & re-feeding after every point. I picked up the habit after getting into DCC, but I found it works just as well for DC. Having small sections makes it easy to understand & troubleshoot, but there are just a lot of small sections, so more wires.

 

I still agree with you that small, simple layouts are the best way to start. Another advantage is that seeing it work for the first time gives your modelling motivation a huge boost. You get to this a lot more quickly with a small, simple layout.

 

The OP is effectively doing what you're suggesting: He has a single point and a length of track on a bit of old plywood. That's what the question is about and the larger layout photo is a red-herring.

 

@CallingAtGreatDestinations Let's assume for the purposes of this test that you don't want to control the point motor from DCC - that's a whole extra layer of complexity.

 

The guys above have already said some of this but:

 

The point motor really needs a separate power supply from the DCC. The motor has two electromagnets in it so they need a brief pulses of quite high energy. Thus, your switch must be a passing contact or momentary type, not one that switches on or off like a light switch. The PL-26 is the correct switch for the job.

 

Does your controller have terminals on the back marked "16V AC" or something similar? If so that's a suitable power source for the point motor. If not you need a separate Power Supply Unit. (You probably don't need to worry about CDUs for just a single point motor.)

 

The electrical tags on the motor itself (not the PL-13 switch attached to it underneath) are for the electromagnets, two on either side. The two on opposite sides at each end are for each magnet. The circuit to energise one of the magnets is: point motor power supply [+ or red] -> [side1] Front Electromagnet [side2] -> [common or centre] Switch [Front contact] -> [- or black] point motor power supply.

 

If you test that the point motor should fire one way when you push the switch one way.

 

Then wire up the other side of the point motor the same way but using the other side of the switch and the other electromagnet:

point motor power supply [+ or red] -> [side1] Back Electromagnet [side2] -> [common or centre] Switch [Back contact] -> point motor power supply [- or black].

 

Now moving the switch should move the point motor both ways.

 

(Notice that both of the electromagnets have a connection to power supply [red or + terminal] so you can save some wiring in future by bringing one wire only to one electromagnet and then just a short loop of wire to the other.

 

The final part of the puzzle is to make the point motor switch the frog "polarity". This is where the PL-13 comes in. Connect DCC red and black to the outside contacts of the PL13 and the centre contact to the frog wire. The green sheathed wire that you have already used is a good colour convention for frog wires.

 

Ideally at this point you would have carefully worked out which DCC wire to connect to which side of the PL-13 switch and got it right first time - otherwise you will get a short circuit when you first run a train through the turnout. Failing that, test it with a continuity tester and if it's the wrong way round swap the DCC wires to the PL-13 over. Failing that, just run a train through the turnout and be prepared to quickly power off if there's a short circuit.

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by Harlequin