South Wales Metro Tram Trains

[woodenhead]

Bit of video of the new tram/trains on test.

 

[KingEdwardII]

Strange to see the new guise of that site in Taffs Well - in my youth "South Wales Forgemasters" had a plant there, looking very different. I had a student summer job at a bakery just to the north, so cycled past most days. The junction for the now long closed line to Caerphilly was just in front of the site.

 

Yours, Mike.

[Dava]

Good to see this investment after all the intensively used but rather naff trains which have provided Valleys and commuter services around Cardiff for decades.

 

Dava

[Mark Saunders]

On 31/07/2023 at 17:56, Dava said:

Good to see this investment after all the intensively used but rather naff trains which have provided Valleys and commuter services around Cardiff for decades.

 

Dava

 

Just wait a few years and you will be complaining about these once the shine and novelty has disapeared ! How long did Manchester's original trams last before complete replacement.

[The Stationmaster]

On 31/07/2023 at 17:17, KingEdwardII said:

Strange to see the new guise of that site in Taffs Well - in my youth "South Wales Forgemasters" had a plant there, looking very different. I had a student summer job at a bakery just to the north, so cycled past most days. The junction for the now long closed line to Caerphilly was just in front of the site.

 

Yours, Mike.

I was told that the depot is in the vee of the former junction.  So it won't be  on the site of South Wales Forgemasters (which was on the Down side at the bottom of the Bog Hill.

[KingEdwardII]

5 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

I was told that the depot is in the vee of the former junction.

No, the depot is in the area between the old line and the A470 - as can be seen in the picture shown in this article:

https://tfw.wales/projects/metro/south-wales-metro/taffs-well

 

That this was the Forgemasters site is confirmed by these photos:
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/how-village-taffs-well-could-12472787

https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/6322551

 

Your comment made me doubt my memory - it was about 50 years ago and many things get hazy after such a long time! However, some web searching proves that my memory was correct in this case!

 

I used to live in Coryton, just over a mile south of Taffs Well, and my dad used to have his hair cut by a barber in Taffs Well, only a stone's throw from the station - we knew the area pretty well.

 

These new tram/trains will be a huge step up for the valley lines - I look forward to travelling on them. I still have numerous relatives living in the Aberdare area.

 

Yours, Mike.

 

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, KingEdwardII said:

No, the depot is in the area between the old line and the A470 - as can be seen in the picture shown in this article:

https://tfw.wales/projects/metro/south-wales-metro/taffs-well

 

That this was the Forgemasters site is confirmed by these photos:
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/how-village-taffs-well-could-12472787

https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/6322551

 

Your comment made me doubt my memory - it was about 50 years ago and many things get hazy after such a long time! However, some web searching proves that my memory was correct in this case!

 

I used to live in Coryton, just over a mile south of Taffs Well, and my dad used to have his hair cut by a barber in Taffs Well, only a stone's throw from the station - we knew the area pretty well.

 

These new tram/trains will be a huge step up for the valley lines - I look forward to travelling on them. I still have numerous relatives living in the Aberdare area.

 

Yours, Mike.

 

Thanks - seems i was misinformed as that is indeed the Fiorgemaster's site.  Well know to me as at one time I lodged in Taffs Well for several months and a couple of years later it was on my patch so I visited the place at least once a week.

[Ian Hargrave]

At the beginning ( mine )  it was an A class or,56XX  hauling grimy chocolate & cream. Then came a clutch of 82XXX and BR carmine/maroon .All change in ‘58 when cometh the dmu in green with whiskers,followed by BR blue for decades. In those days the Taff ran black and I log  D 6869 at Taffs Well on 30/9/65.Moving on we reach the ragbag stage of so many different liveries ,units & TOC you lose the will to live.The age of the unlamented 14X Valleys Lines & ATW etc .Dear heaven, South Wales needs a break. And lo….it’s at long last getting it.. If ,hopefully I’m still around I am so looking forward to my first trip up past Ponty to Ystrad Rhondda on this wonder rail. Once a Valley’s boy… Aberdare

 

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by Ian Hargrave
Adding text

[KingEdwardII]

3 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

cometh the dmu in green with whiskers

Fondly remembered as the steed for my first train journeys from Aberdare to Cardiff Queen Street, way back in the early 1960s, before we moved to the sea air of Aberystwyth and Manors pulling long rakes of coaches.

 

Electric trains from Aberdare to Cardiff - they will be great, but nothing can remove the memory of the deep throated sound of a 116 DMU moving away from a station, even if the click and hum of the new vehicles is so much more civilised.

 

Yours, Mike.

[woodenhead]

12 hours ago, Mark Saunders said:

 

Just wait a few years and you will be complaining about these once the shine and novelty has disapeared ! How long did Manchester's original trams last before complete replacement.

The original trams (Firema T68s) were unreliable, heavy and at 17 years old in 2008 were due to be refurbished to last another 10 years but the work was found to ne more extensive and therefore expensive than planned.  The newer trams were also proving more reliable and being lighter were causing less track damage so they ordered more of them and now we have a single type fleet of trams.

[br2975]

The redevlopment of the CVL  ( Industry speak for the Core Valley Lines ) is truly amazing, if not bewlidering also.

.

The photo was taken on 4th. April  at the end of my road, from Waungron Park station, looking 'up' or  'north' towards Radyr and shws the knitting in place

.

This is the former Penarth Harbour & Docks Railway between Penarth Junction - later to become Radyr Junction, and Penarth Curve North (near canton TMD).

.

The flats on the left, Kennilworth Court, are built on the former Ely & Fairwater Goods Yard, which closed in 1963.

.

Until 1987 this line was freight only, but that year several  new stations at Waungron Park, Fairwater and Danescourt, together with the existing Ninian Park Halt  were opened to passenger traffic and marketed as 'The City Line'.

.

Fairwater station is just visible in the distance through Pwllmelin Road overbridge.

.

In the middle distance, to the left of the line is my alma mater from where I watched a continual procession of diesel hauled freights pass here at the turn of the 70s. - 

.

My first railway photograph was taken just out of sight in the distance at Waterhall Junction in 1964 - I was waiting for one of Radyr's surviving panniers, but ended up with an EE Type 3 propelling a brake van.

.

In the intervening years I've seen, and  known Classes 03, 08, 11, 14, 20, 25, 31, 33, 35, 37, 40, 42, 45, 46, 47, 50, 52, 56, 60 and 66  pass along this stretch, as well as 'City of Truro' and several other steam locos including NCB Austerities and NCB Pannier 7754.

.

Whilst I took all the above in my stride; if, all those years ago someone had told me this stretch would one day be electrified, and operated by 'tram trains' I would have scoffed....very loudly.

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by br2975

[br2975]

Waungron Park looking 'down' or south towards Penarth Curve North and Cardiff, 23rd, May 2023.

.

To the left, and below is one of the contractor's work compounds; and a ramp has been built to allow access to the track by road-rail vehicles.

.

The sheet piling is preparatory to platform lengthening.

Edited August 3, 2023 by br2975

[br2975]

13 hours ago, Mark Saunders said:

 

Just wait a few years and you will be complaining about these once the shine and novelty has disapeared ! How long did Manchester's original trams last before complete replacement.

.

There are already complaints, before the Cl.398 'tram trains' have entered service.

.

Primary amongst the complaints, the units are bereft of toilets - even though there is a toilet option available from Stadler.

.

The Cl.150 'Sprinters' and both Cl.142 and 143 'Pacers' had toilets, and many see the lack thereof in the 398 as a backward step.

.

As for me, Waungron Park is at the end of my road.

There are 2 tph from there into Cardiff, 1 ph in the evening ( and this is unlikely to change)  - and as a pensioner, I have to pay.

Whereas there are also between 4 and 6 buses per hour past my front door, and TfW allow me to travel free on them.

Guess which mode wins ?

[br2975]

Taffs Well from the station footbridge, looking 'down' towards Radyr, showing the lead off (left) into the Metro Depot.

.

Initially, a triangle access was proposed here, but the resultant civ-eng work around the A470 slip road and Cardiff Road (the bridge in the distance) was considered excessive, cost wise.

.

The Metro depot is out of shot, to the left.

.

Those of 'a certain age' will recall Walnut Tree Viaduct once dominated the blue sky seen here, and Walnut Tree Junction Signal Box was where the electrical substation now stands on the right.

.

The branch to Aber Junction, Caerphilly and the Rhymney Valley curved off to the left. 

[br2975]

Mike aka 'The Stationmaster' would need to look long and hard to recognise this location, . . . . . . . 

.

This is Radyr, looking in the 'up' direction towards Taffs Well and the valleys.

.

Farthest right is Platform 1 - which is used by trains to Cardiff / Barry etc via cardiff Queen St.

.

Middle is Platform 2 - which is bi-directional

.

Left is Platform 3 - which is used by City Line trains, which terminate here, and reverse back to Coryton.

.

The platform  lifts are a feature at a number of CVL stations, the station also has a booking 'office'

.

I turned to my right to take the second shot which is looking in the down direction, towards Cardiff.

.

The onetime plywood wonder that was Radyr Junction 'box once stood on the far side of the lines, behind the two road-rail cherry pickers.

Edited August 3, 2023 by br2975

[Rivercider]

My last visit to Taffs Well was in about 1983, I guess I would not recognise the place now.

 

To contrast Brian's photo looking south at Taffs Well here is a view from a wet day in 1980.

 

37162 heads north towards Pontypridd with coal empties past Walnut Tree Junction signal box 14/11/80

 

cheers

[KingEdwardII]

8 hours ago, br2975 said:

This is Radyr, looking in the 'up' direction towards Taffs Well and the valleys.

When I was a teenager, there were a pair of freight-only tracks on the left at Radyr, which were the haunt of Class 37s - we used to view them from the back garden of a friends house at the top of the embankment above the tracks.

 

Riverciders' photo of a 37 at Taffs Well is the classic valleys coal train of that era. Being in the rain definitely gives it the right mood.

 

The transformation of all these locations through electrification is simply amazing to me. The new trackwork at Taffs Well, with that new scissors crossing, is very impressive.

 

Yours, Mike.

[KingEdwardII]

9 hours ago, br2975 said:

the units are bereft of toilets

Yes, as with the Elizabeth line trains, I wonder if this is the right decision.

 

Currently, the journey from Cardiff to Aberdare takes an hour. OK, the new electric trains may well be faster, but that is a long time to be without toilet facilities. So this criticism is justified.

 

Yours, Mike.

[br2975]

Something not mentioned so far, are the long sections of the Metro not equipped with OHLE, at points where the raising of bridges, or lowering the track bed, or other issues of cost prevent the use of OHLE.

.

e.g.

On the City Line, the OHLE commences at the CVL (Core Valley Lines) Western Boundary which is about half a mile west of (up) Ninian Park.

.

The OHLE here then forms a long negative section before meeting the first energised section around Waungron Park / Fairwater ?

.

On the non-OHLE sections the Class 398 'tram trains' will run on battery power, the pantographs are expected to raise and lower automatically.

.

The OHLE is as much for charging the units batteries as it is for powering the tram-trains

.

[The Border Reiver]

I posted this picture on here in February 2017 asking if anyone could help with the location. It was takn on 22 August 1963

 

The Johnster confirmed it was Taff's Well as follows..... The 94xx is, I agree, at Taff's Well, in the sidings of what later became Forgemasters and with the Penrhos roads between it and the down platform, which you can see the fence for and the foot of the footbridge which is of course still there.  It may be resting between banking duties, a very common task for the big panniers here.  The Penrhos line is now a cycle path, and you can get up a good bit of speed coming down the bank on it!

 

 

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

15 hours ago, br2975 said:

Mike aka 'The Stationmaster' would need to look long and hard to recognise this location, . . . . . . . 

.

This is Radyr, looking in the 'up' direction towards Taffs Well and the valleys.

.

Farthest right is Platform 1 - which is used by trains to Cardiff / Barry etc via cardiff Queen St.

.

Middle is Platform 2 - which is bi-directional

.

Left is Platform 3 - which is used by City Line trains, which terminate here, and reverse back to Coryton.

.

The platform  lifts are a feature at a number of CVL stations, the station also has a booking 'office'

.

I turned to my right to take the second shot which is looking in the down direction, towards Cardiff.

.

The onetime plywood wonder that was Radyr Junction 'box once stood on the far side of the lines, behind the two road-rail cherry pickers.

Dunno about Radyr but Taffs Well/Walut Tree Jcn is bad enough - complete now with that maintenance nightmare of a scissors crossover.  They do say you can never go back to somewhere and I certainly don't fancy any of that lot compared with what was there even 50 years ago when it was still a real railway.

 

Incidentally where ate the FLIRT units going to run as I doubt Swindon will be a public destination (!!) and presumably we won't see them in England after their mileage accumulation is finished.

 

1 hour ago, The Border Reiver said:

I posted this picture on here in February 2017 asking if anyone could help with the location. It was takn on 22 August 1963

 

The Johnster confirmed it was Taff's Well as follows..... The 94xx is, I agree, at Taff's Well, in the sidings of what later became Forgemasters and with the Penrhos roads between it and the down platform, which you can see the fence for and the foot of the footbridge which is of course still there.  It may be resting between banking duties, a very common task for the big panniers here.  The Penrhos line is now a cycle path, and you can get up a good bit of speed coming down the bank on it!

 

 

 

 

The sidings just there were actually traffic sidings and  the runaway siding for the bottom of the Big Hill,   Garth Works private sidings were further away from the running line and made a trailing connection into the Down Line which was removed in 1957.   There was single remaining aiding, somewhere beyond the loco which connected out of the neck of the sidings the engine and wagons are standing on and it lasted until 1966.  The sidings where the engine and wagons are standing were taken out of use in 1969 by which time they had been in engineer's use for some years.

 

There was originally a quite extensive nest of traffic sidings just there including the RR goods depot.  There was also the RR  single road engine shed which the GWR closed in 1922 followingr the Grouping.  The building survived for over 60 years after that and is just visible at the extreme right of your photo above the Low wagon - it was presumably rented or sold to Forgemasters as the sidings on that side were removed by WWII.

 

The engine is most likely the Taffs Well pilot/banker although it might possibly have been working a trip. 

 

Incidentally the private sidings had a very complex history of ownership.  There were 4 different owners between 1919 and 1939 when South wales Forgemasters took over ownership although that might have been a company renaming or reorganisation of Brown Lennox Limited.  Then from 1940 two other companies owned in succession the siding served by the trailing connection until its removal in 1957.  The other connection - originally a kick-back off the RR's line to Castell Coch but later the remains of that line was South Wales Forgemasters from 1939 to closure of the connection

[The Johnster]

On 31/07/2023 at 17:17, KingEdwardII said:

I had a student summer job at a bakery just to the north, so cycled past most days. The junction for the now long closed line to Caerphilly was just in front of the site.

 

Used to wave at girls in the bakery from passing trains.  The 'big hill' to Penrhos and Caerphilly is now part of the 'Taff Trail' cycle route.

 

On 03/08/2023 at 18:27, Ian Hargrave said:

In those days the Taff ran black

 

Didn't it though!  Added to the muck was all sorts of chemical unpleasantness from the various factories on the Treforest trading estate, and coming down empty stock from Merthyr one night in the very hot summer of 1976, when the river was little more than a turgid stream of sludge, I was alarmed to see, on the section above Radyr Wier, sheets of blue flame playing across the surface to the - I was about to say water, but you couldn't call the black acidic slime that was crawling it's way down the valley water!  It stank as well.  

 

There are salmon and trout there now, to the extent that there's a fish ladder for them, and kingfishers dart up and down the Melingriffith feeder.  The water is gin clear; difficult to believe for those of us who remember it as it was!

 

On 04/08/2023 at 06:35, Rivercider said:

here is a view from a wet day in 1980.

 

Or, as we call them in South Wales, a day in 1980...  Brilliant atmosphere in that shot, Kevin!

[KingEdwardII]

3 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Used to wave at girls in the bakery from passing trains. 

The girls working mostly on the cakes side of the bakery got the highest wages - and the daytime shifts!

I worked the 12 hour night shift loading bread vans for morning deliveries - and we were all blokes! It put me off eating bread for a while...

 

Yours, Mike.