Beyond Lausanne

[MOB 2002]

Knowing just how much knowledge is in this group, I wonder if anyone can help with a query …

 

What non-Swiss stock would have been seen beyond Lausanne on the route to Brig via Vevey etc in the 1980s and 90s (Pre Cisalpino I guess)?

 

I’ve seen plenty of photos of Italian through carriages, but were there any others that appeared along that route in the era? 

Thanks in advance 

 

Mark

[Mike at C&M]

The most memorable one for me was the early years of the Venice-Simplon-Orient Express. I got up early one morning when staying in Brig to watch it pass through on it's southbound journey towards Venice. I have never seen so many 'half-cut' people in the same vicinity at the same time!

 

 

One of the more interesting Italian stock workings was the Trans-European Express "Cisalpino", before it downgraded to a EuroCity service. This was formed of Italian coaches, in the traditional red/cream livery. The locomotive on the front is one of the four Re4/4IV locomotives.

This photograph suggests it is taken after that downgrading, as the rear of the train is formed of orange liveried Eurofima coaches, probably also belonging the 'FS'

 

 

The following photograph is not one of mine, but has been pinched from a Facebook group, and often serves as a wallpaper on my laptop.

It shows one of the TEE liveried Re4/4II locomotives on a rake on SNCF inox liveried coaches - can anyone confirm if this is Mistral69 stock?

I believe the service to be "Lemano" which probably ran from Milan to Paris, via Geneva. Lemano presumably being the Italian name for Lake Geneva (Lac Leman in French)

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by Mike at C&M
Correction of description

[chb2488]

Hello Mike

 

The SNCF coaches are indeed Mistral 69 coaches. One small correction: TEE Lemano used FS vehicules, TEE Cisalpin was SNCF (and SBB RAe before that). Nice pictures!

 

Best regards

 

Christian

[cessna152towser]

In 2002 I travelled on a French TGV from Paris to Vevey and a few days later from Montreux to Stresa on an Italian Pendolino which had started from Lausanne with an end destination of Venice.   The TGV continued beyond Vevey but I can't recall its eventual destination.  The return journey from Stresa, however, was all on Swiss trains as far as Lausanne where we boarded a TGV back to Paris.

[MOB 2002]

20 hours ago, Mike at C&M said:

The most memorable one for me was the early years of the Venice-Simplon-Orient Express. I got up early one morning when staying in Brig to watch it pass through on it's southbound journey towards Venice. I have never seen so many 'half-cut' people in the same vicinity at the same time!

 

 

One of the more interesting Italian stock workings was the Trans-European Express "Cisalpino", before it downgraded to a EuroCity service. This was formed of Italian coaches, in the traditional red/cream livery. The locomotive on the front is one of the four Re4/4IV locomotives.

This photograph suggests it is taken after that downgrading, as the rear of the train is formed of orange liveried Eurofima coaches, probably also belonging the 'FS'

 

 

The following photograph is not one of mine, but has been pinched from a Facebook group, and often serves as a wallpaper on my laptop.

It shows one of the TEE liveried Re4/4II locomotives on a rake on SNCF inox liveried coaches - can anyone confirm if this is Mistral69 stock?

I believe the service to be "Lemano" which probably ran from Milan to Paris, via Geneva. Lemano presumably being the Italian name for Lake Geneva (Lac Leman in French)

 

Ah … the VSOE - clue is in the name isn’t it! 🤦‍♂️ 

 

I also didn’t realise that the Cisaplin ran for so long, a quick search reveals photos of Re4/4 IV  on the same stock. I always assumed the BBC Great Railway Journeys episode was filmed much earlier than it apparently was!
 

I seem to remember the latest Arnold VSOE release getting slated on 1 zu 160, but a 1980s Cisaplin looks like an option at some point this year.

 

Thanks so much 

 

Mark

[DaveF]

21 hours ago, Mike at C&M said:

The following photograph is not one of mine, but has been pinched from a Facebook group, and often serves as a wallpaper on my laptop.

It shows one of the TEE liveried Re4/4II locomotives on a rake on SNCF inox liveried coaches - can anyone confirm if this is Mistral69 stock?

I believe the service to be "Lemano" which probably ran from Milan to Paris, via Geneva. Lemano presumably being the Italian name for Lake Geneva (Lac Leman in French)

 

 

Mike, this is image is one of my Dad's which I put on flickr, file number J6180 taken at Epesses on 28th July 1978.  I have it down as Milan to Geneve but it could well have gone on to Paris.  I don't have details for the stock.

 

I've no idea how it has reached Facebook, I didn't put it there.  Can you remember where it is on Facebook - I'm not bothered it is there but I would like to see what other photos they have!

 

David

[Mike at C&M]

4 minutes ago, DaveF said:

 

I've no idea how it has reached Facebook, I didn't put it there. 

 

David

Most likely a mis-identification of the source by me, so my apologies for leading you astray. There are many of the European photos on your thread that have brought back happy memories of my European travels in the past.

 

 

[Montreux_1991]

On 03/08/2023 at 20:34, MOB 2002 said:

Knowing just how much knowledge is in this group, I wonder if anyone can help with a query …

 

What non-Swiss stock would have been seen beyond Lausanne on the route to Brig via Vevey etc in the 1980s and 90s (Pre Cisalpino I guess)?

 

I’ve seen plenty of photos of Italian through carriages, but were there any others that appeared along that route in the era? 

Thanks in advance 

 

Mark

 

I was lucky enough to spend summer 1991 in Montreux, working mostly nights and using my spare time to explore the railways and model shops of Lake Geneva. With no prior knowledge of Swiss railways and no internet, I had to make my own (extensively researched, but perhaps slightly over-simplified) conclusions about train formations.

 

There were four daytime Eurocity train pairs: EC Cisalpin, Lemano and Lutetia which connected with TGVs at Lausanne and terminated at Milan, and EC Monteverdi which terminated at Venice. All were operated by RABe ‘Grey Mouse’ units with red coupling covers, or by air-conditioned SBB stock in C1 orange livery, hauled by Re4/4 IVs in Bahn 2000 livery.

 

The only foreign coaches I remember from four months of intensive train-watching were occasional rakes of FS stock in Rosso Fegato livery, possibly replacing SBB stock on IC services, and the ex-SNCF MC76 coaches (in Corail livery with SBB branding) which had recently been added to loco-hauled Eurocity trains.

 

Outside the 1989-1993 reign of the Grey Mice, published sources and photographs (and my own observations in 1996) show more foreign stock on international services:

 

TEE Cisalpin was operated by RAe II four-voltage units from 1961, then with loco-hauled SNCF Mistral 69 stock from May 1974

 

TEE Lemano was operated by FS 2-car diesel units from 1959, then with loco-hauled FS TEE stock from May 1972, adding FS 2nd class coaches from May 1982

 

Le Lutetia was operated from 1977 with FS loco-hauled stock, mostly in C1 orange livery.

 

TGVs came to Lausanne in January 1981, but didn’t get to Brig (as a daily TGV des Neiges) until the winter 1995-6 timetable.

 

In summer 1996 most international services were operated with SBB Eurocity coaches in two-tone grey, but the EC Monteverdi was FS UIC-Z stock plus a restaurant car.

 

Then came the Cisalpino saga…

Edited August 4, 2023 by Montreux_1991
Correction of a date

[MOB 2002]

On 04/08/2023 at 23:02, Montreux_1991 said:

 

I was lucky enough to spend summer 1991 in Montreux, working mostly nights and using my spare time to explore the railways and model shops of Lake Geneva. With no prior knowledge of Swiss railways and no internet, I had to make my own (extensively researched, but perhaps slightly over-simplified) conclusions about train formations.

 

There were four daytime Eurocity train pairs: EC Cisalpin, Lemano and Lutetia which connected with TGVs at Lausanne and terminated at Milan, and EC Monteverdi which terminated at Venice. All were operated by RABe ‘Grey Mouse’ units with red coupling covers, or by air-conditioned SBB stock in C1 orange livery, hauled by Re4/4 IVs in Bahn 2000 livery.

 

The only foreign coaches I remember from four months of intensive train-watching were occasional rakes of FS stock in Rosso Fegato livery, possibly replacing SBB stock on IC services, and the ex-SNCF MC76 coaches (in Corail livery with SBB branding) which had recently been added to loco-hauled Eurocity trains.

 

Outside the 1989-1993 reign of the Grey Mice, published sources and photographs (and my own observations in 1996) show more foreign stock on international services:

 

TEE Cisalpin was operated by RAe II four-voltage units from 1961, then with loco-hauled SNCF Mistral 69 stock from May 1974

 

TEE Lemano was operated by FS 2-car diesel units from 1959, then with loco-hauled FS TEE stock from May 1972, adding FS 2nd class coaches from May 1982

 

Le Lutetia was operated from 1977 with FS loco-hauled stock, mostly in C1 orange livery.

 

TGVs came to Lausanne in January 1981, but didn’t get to Brig (as a daily TGV des Neiges) until the winter 1995-6 timetable.

 

In summer 1996 most international services were operated with SBB Eurocity coaches in two-tone grey, but the EC Monteverdi was FS UIC-Z stock plus a restaurant car.

 

Then came the Cisalpino saga…

I can’t tell you how useful this was … I’ve been away and done some digging into each of the EC trains and their formations. Photos like this have rather grabbed my attention: 

 

https://www.rail-pictures.com/bild/switzerland~electric-locomotives~re-4-4-iv/38264/the-sbb-re-44-iv-10101.html

 

The first item of FS carriage stock arrived with me today; just a Fleischmann Eurofima B in C1 livery, but I’m keeping an eye out for more. I’ve already got a pair of SBB Eurofima A’s and a UIC restaurant in the C1 livery. 

 

It looks like a totally typical formation for the Lemano and Lutetia in N might be a challenge, but I should be able to get close. The Cisalpin though looks pretty straightforward in due course. 
 

Whilst searching I ended up finding this on Resisezuge.ch … https://reisezuege.ch/index.php?action=5&znummer=1284&fp_id=1

 

That seems to suggest that in 2005 there was a train of DB stock that made it all the way to Montreux! If that’s right, does anyone have any idea when the train started running?

 

In the meantime, I’m off to go and do some more garage clearing. 

 

Mark

[Montreux_1991]

2 hours ago, MOB 2002 said:

I can’t tell you how useful this was … I’ve been away and done some digging into each of the EC trains and their formations. Photos like this have rather grabbed my attention: 

 

https://www.rail-pictures.com/bild/switzerland~electric-locomotives~re-4-4-iv/38264/the-sbb-re-44-iv-10101.html

 

The first item of FS carriage stock arrived with me today; just a Fleischmann Eurofima B in C1 livery, but I’m keeping an eye out for more. I’ve already got a pair of SBB Eurofima A’s and a UIC restaurant in the C1 livery. 

 

It looks like a totally typical formation for the Lemano and Lutetia in N might be a challenge, but I should be able to get close. The Cisalpin though looks pretty straightforward in due course. 
 

Whilst searching I ended up finding this on Resisezuge.ch … https://reisezuege.ch/index.php?action=5&znummer=1284&fp_id=1

 

That seems to suggest that in 2005 there was a train of DB stock that made it all the way to Montreux! If that’s right, does anyone have any idea when the train started running?

 

In the meantime, I’m off to go and do some more garage clearing. 

 

Mark

 

I’m surprised you see a challenge finding stock: I’ve been tempted by availability (and mostly quality) to go far beyond my initial period of 1991.

 

The biggest gap, now announced by Hobbytrain, is the SBB Bpm but there have always been plausible workarounds. In the period 1977-80 the Bpm hadn’t been delivered and SBB Eurofima coaches could be seen with orange-liveried RIC couchettes; for later years I would substitute FS Eurofima 2nd class coaches.

 

I’m aware of the following suitable stock (in roughly chronological order)

 

FS diesel railcars: Lematec or Locomodels.it

 

SBB RAe: Hobbytrain (not the Kato model, which is in preserved condition with a white aerial on the cab roof and more bodyside lettering)

 

FS TEE coaches: Pirata, re-released earlier this year as a very nice five car set (Pi6118) with ‘Televisore’ logo

 

Mistral 69 coaches: LS models or (announced) Arnold

 

SBB RIC coaches: Hobbytrain or Kato. The RIC Bpm conversions in ‘EW IV’ livery have been done by Wabu (Hobbytrain repaint) Wemoba (Hobbytrain repaint) and Kato, although none gets close to matching the Roco EW IV livery, Wemoba being in my opinion the least bad.

 

FS UIC-X coaches: Acme and Pirata, who have announced a grey UIC-X full brake and (in a set) what I think is the FS restaurant car that I spotted in 1996. With luck they'll do the UIC-X brake in C1 orange at some point...

 

Eurofima coaches, and the very similar-looking FS UIC-Z1 built in large number from the mid-1980s. The Minitrix SBB 1st still splits between upper and lower bodyside. Arnold (who did a ‘fake’ SBB Eurofima 2nd) look too tall, with particularly deep-set windows on the 1st class, but they offer Z1 coaches with revised doors and roof and a better range of post-C1 orange liveries: HN4393 and HN4394 should be with us in a few months. Pirata do a Z1 that’s been announced in late 1980s livery (Pi6200) but for Eurofima coaches you can’t look beyond the Roco / Fleischmann model despite its age.

 

SBB RABe: Hobbytrain or Kato

 

BB ex-SNCF MC76 brake coach: Lima 320388

 

SBB Eurocity coaches: Minitrix

[Montreux_1991]

3 hours ago, MOB 2002 said:

I can’t tell you how useful this was … I’ve been away and done some digging into each of the EC trains and their formations. Photos like this have rather grabbed my attention: 

 

https://www.rail-pictures.com/bild/switzerland~electric-locomotives~re-4-4-iv/38264/the-sbb-re-44-iv-10101.html

 

The first item of FS carriage stock arrived with me today; just a Fleischmann Eurofima B in C1 livery, but I’m keeping an eye out for more. I’ve already got a pair of SBB Eurofima A’s and a UIC restaurant in the C1 livery. 

 

It looks like a totally typical formation for the Lemano and Lutetia in N might be a challenge, but I should be able to get close. The Cisalpin though looks pretty straightforward in due course. 
 

Whilst searching I ended up finding this on Resisezuge.ch … https://reisezuege.ch/index.php?action=5&znummer=1284&fp_id=1

 

That seems to suggest that in 2005 there was a train of DB stock that made it all the way to Montreux! If that’s right, does anyone have any idea when the train started running?

 

In the meantime, I’m off to go and do some more garage clearing. 

 

Mark

 

Thinking about stock provoked a brain-dump on the subject of the Roco / Fleischmann Eurofima coaches, which might be useful if you plan more shopping. The ‘Generation’ terminology is entirely my own…

 

Generation 1 has moving buffer beams: don’t bother. Also note (if you like swapping parts around) the bogies are incompatible with later production.

 

Generation 2 has fixed buffer beams, a painted finish (at least initially) and rather grey bodyside stripes. Available in SBB 1st (Roco 24223) FS ‘Televisore’ 1st (Roco 24224) FS ‘Televisore’ 2nd (Roco 24226) and many more

 

Generation 2.1 has a less grey (more white) bodyside stripe, to my mind this works well (next to Kato RICs, and Roco Generation 3) as a more recently outshopped C1 livery. Available in FS ‘Inclinato’ 1st (Roco 24296) and 2nd (Roco 24297)

 

Generation 3 has a slightly lighter orange, unpainted plastic bodyshell with a white bodyside stripe. KKK close coupling makes an appearance but at about this time Roco coaches started coming out of the moulds a bit banana-shaped which is a real pity. Available in SBB 1st (Roco 24425) FS 2nd (Roco 24426) SNCB 2nd (Roco 24427) and more.

 

Later Roco models have window frames picked out in black, which I find distracting on C1 livery. Available in SBB 1st (Roco 24465) and also a very nice two-tone grey (Roco 24470)

 

Fleischmann continued to pick out the window frames in black, and moulded an extra pair of retaining clips for the roof, to reduce the ‘wavy gutter line’ effect that stands out against new models where the roof is moulded integral with the body. Available in FS ‘Televisore’ 1st (814456) and FS ‘Televisore’ 2nd (814458, 814459) but the size and alignment of the logo seems to have changed a bit, not for the better.

[MOB 2002]

I agree that there’s plenty of good stock out there and more coming - I’m probably being really pedantic. 
 

From what I can see the Lemano ran with part Gran Comfort and part Eurofima … so I’d have to spend about £250 on the Pirata set and not use it all - maybe I’m tight!

 

The Lutetia seems to have always run with a C1 liveried FS full brake, which as you pointed out isn’t available. 

Thankfully most of the SBB stock I need is already to hand (Rabe sets excluded) or due for release.

 

I think I’ll go for it still.

 

Mark

[MOB 2002]

So, this is slowly (very slowly) turning from an idea into an 18ft by 2ft 6in layout. In between reorganising the garage to make space I’ve been working on a suitable track plan that can feature a station inspired by a blend of Montreux, Vevey and possibly a touch of Aigle, plus a section of lakeside running with a diverging branch up through vineyards. 
 

I’ve also been acquiring suitable stock whenever the opportunity arose. Today a pair of Arnold FS ‘Z1’ arrived. 
 

 

Overall, I think they’re quite decent - the only real frustration is that the bodyside grille and destination panel holder are printed detail rather than moulded. 
 

Judging by the fact I managed to get the last pair from Gaugemaster and the main Arnold website is showing ‘last few’ they must have sold well still. 

Mark

[Gordonwis]

On 10/08/2023 at 22:49, MOB 2002 said:

I agree that there’s plenty of good stock out there and more coming - I’m probably being really pedantic. 
 

From what I can see the Lemano ran with part Gran Comfort and part Eurofima … so I’d have to spend about £250 on the Pirata set and not use it all - maybe I’m tight!

 

The Lutetia seems to have always run with a C1 liveried FS full brake, which as you pointed out isn’t available. 

Thankfully most of the SBB stock I need is already to hand (Rabe sets excluded) or due for release.

 

I think I’ll go for it still.

 

Mark

 

 

Despite looking on here most days, I seem to have missed this thread but I can see that the first post was the day before my wife and I flew to Vancouver for a cruise to Alaska an California!

 

As such I hope this response doesn't steal any thunder from other peoples' contributions so far, but Geneve - Lausanne - Brig is one of my most travelled lines over nigh on 60 years.

 

I don't think you have to break the bank. Essentially if you want to represent passenger workings on the Lausanne - Brig line covering anytime from the late 1970s - early 2000s, you need a mix of 'standard' SBB and FS UIC coaches of all the 'mainstream' types, plus FS TEE stock (Lemano) and Mistral 69 (Cisalpin). The Lemano shouldn't need a huge amount of expense, as it often ran in fairly short formation.

 

Stock from 'further afield' that ran regularly would include:

SNCF UIC day, UIC couchette, WLAB T2 sleepers (on Paris - Italy via Vallorbe - Simplon night trains such as the Simplon Express and Parthenon

SNCF TGV (ski season Paris - Brig or Paris - Aigle

SNCB I4 or I5 (agency trains Brussels - Brig eg ski season specials)

JZ (Yugoslavia) couchettes and sleepers. 

 

Although some of these ran at night, you can plausibly run the trains when your railway room light is on, as trains from Italy and as far away as Beograd (the Simplon Express with its JZ stock) often ran hours late so especially in mid summer  they could be seen in daylight around Montreux 

 

 

 

.

Edited November 22, 2023 by Gordonwis

[MOB 2002]

Thanks Gordon, that’s really useful - stupidly I didn’t really get to know the area around Lake Geneva until well into this century, having previously been very Graubunden centric. 
 

I think I’m going to stick to summer workings as I want to model the vineyards at their best, but I’ll definitely keep an eye out for suitable stock to make something like the Parthenon possible too. There doesn’t seem to be too many images online at first glance, but probably just enough.

 

I think my plan might need a bigger fiddle yard!

 

Mark

[Samedan]

3 hours ago, MOB 2002 said:

think my plan might need a bigger fiddle yard!

One always needs a bigger fiddle yard! 

[Gordonwis]

Southbound Lausanne - Brig trains from my 1983 Swiss Kursbuch:

 

Departing Lausanne in the small hours:

Simplon Express Paris - Beograd; Galilei Paris - Venezia / Firenze; Parthenon Paris - Brindisi; 

 

Departing Lausanne 06.30:

[unnamed] Paris - Venezia train 225

 

During the day:

International: ordinary Geneve - Milano; Lutetia Paris -Milano; Lemano (by this time 'Inter City' IC423 - ie post TEE, pre Eurocity!) Geneve - Milano; TEE Cisalpin Paris - Milano

Swiss internal: Geneve - Brig trains plus trains to Brig with various origins (eg Romanshorn and Solothurn) all via Biel - Lausanne

 

Departing Lausanne 19.28: 

325 Geneve - Roma sleeper

 

Depart Lausanne 21.28:

947 Geneve - Pescara / Pesaro

 

Depart Lausanne 23.55:

1221 Geneve - Trieste

 

 

I used to note complete train formations. I will try and look out some note books, as I used to often train watch at Geneve Cornavin in the evening (for the incoming TEEs / Talgo and outgoing sleepers before going back to the family place over the French border for dinner

 

 

 

.

 

[Montreux_1991]

I think you'd find both text (in German, but giving fuller details of international train formations than my previous posts) and photos in this 1993 publication very helpful:

 

 LOKI spezial Nr. 6 Die Simplon-Linie

 

Unfortunately, copies come up more regularly on Ricardo.ch (for which I haven't found a UK workaround) than Ebay.de. Speaking of which, at least one old Ricardo listing (search for article number 1211982818) included a number of scanned pages, which should pique your interest.

[Montreux_1991]

23 hours ago, MOB 2002 said:

So, this is slowly (very slowly) turning from an idea into an 18ft by 2ft 6in layout. In between reorganising the garage to make space I’ve been working on a suitable track plan that can feature a station inspired by a blend of Montreux, Vevey and possibly a touch of Aigle, plus a section of lakeside running with a diverging branch up through vineyards. 
 

I’ve also been acquiring suitable stock whenever the opportunity arose. Today a pair of Arnold FS ‘Z1’ arrived. 
 

 

Overall, I think they’re quite decent - the only real frustration is that the bodyside grille and destination panel holder are printed detail rather than moulded. 
 

Judging by the fact I managed to get the last pair from Gaugemaster and the main Arnold website is showing ‘last few’ they must have sold well still. 

Mark

 

I got mine from Scograil (consistently cheaper than Gaugemaster) and have also pre-ordered HN4393, the 3-car set in Brigrigio livery.

 

But I still have the same 'mixed' response as I did to the original Arnold models with 380x catalogue numbers: they're slightly taller overall than Roco Eurofimas, the windows are too tall and square and there's something about the fit of the windows that makes the first class look worse.

 

For Flag livery as shown above, I've hedged my bets by pre-ordering (from Menzels Lokschuppen, but without much hope of seeing models soon) Pirata Pi6200, noting these should be hand-built models not matching any photos published online. Unfortunately no equivalent has been announced in Bigrigio - and as far as I can tell, despite Roco doing the Eurofima 2nd (only) in Bigrigio with Inclinato logo, most Bigrigio livered coaches in traffic during the late 1980s and early 1990s would have been UIC-Z1 but not Eurofima.

 

[MikeB]

Some train formations are described in this website: https://gerberro.ch/eisenbahn/zugbildungen

[Gordonwis]

1 hour ago, MikeB said:

Some train formations are described in this website: https://gerberro.ch/eisenbahn/zugbildungen

 

Indeed. Notably Simplon Express and Parthenon in the 1989/90 timetable   

[MOB 2002]

Thanks for the tip offs and info everyone. I hadn’t fully appreciated just how much the coming of the TGV services to Lausanne changed the picture. The overnight train info is excellent too, there are obviously a lot fewer photos of trains in the night to go from! I think the Parthenon is an obvious one to go for - seems eminently modellable. 
 

I’m never going to be able to be anything more than representative, modelling every train when the formations were so varied would be utterly impossible. Even so I’ve now got a pretty massive shopping list. I’m just glad I wasn’t as interested in the Geneva side of Lausanne. 
 

Need to spend some time refining the track plan to accommodate a slight increase in train length.

 

Mark

[MOB 2002]

21 hours ago, Montreux_1991 said:

 

I got mine from Scograil (consistently cheaper than Gaugemaster) and have also pre-ordered HN4393, the 3-car set in Brigrigio livery.

 

But I still have the same 'mixed' response as I did to the original Arnold models with 380x catalogue numbers: they're slightly taller overall than Roco Eurofimas, the windows are too tall and square and there's something about the fit of the windows that makes the first class look worse.

 

For Flag livery as shown above, I've hedged my bets by pre-ordering (from Menzels Lokschuppen, but without much hope of seeing models soon) Pirata Pi6200, noting these should be hand-built models not matching any photos published online. Unfortunately no equivalent has been announced in Bigrigio - and as far as I can tell, despite Roco doing the Eurofima 2nd (only) in Bigrigio with Inclinato logo, most Bigrigio livered coaches in traffic during the late 1980s and early 1990s would have been UIC-Z1 but not Eurofima.

 

I suspect if I’d been more on the ball, I could have pre-ordered too, I’d normally look to Scograil first as well. I hadn’t even realised they were imminent though, they seem to have turned up before all of the other announced FS carriage stock this year. 

 

Mark

[Gordonwis]

4 hours ago, MOB 2002 said:

 I’m just glad I wasn’t as interested in the Geneva side of Lausanne. 
 

Mark

 

I'm not so sure, knowing Geneve - Lausanne as I do like the back of my hand I have always considered (Vallorbe ) - Lausanne - Brig to have more 'international variety. Geneve - Lausanne really only had the TEE Rheingold and the international trains that also traversed Lausanne - Brig.  

[MOB 2002]

That’s fair, but it also had domestic oddities like the Swiss Express sets to factor in. I suppose the real money no object, space no problem project would be Lausanne itself. Even in N that’d be lottery win territory to do it justice.

 

Mark