Simple Station Stop

[ColinK]

Hi,

 

I'm building a micro layout in 009 which I want to leave running automatically.  It has a circle of Kato track which is covered by a building at one end. Control is analogue.

 

The plan is for a sensor in the building to trip when the loco reaches it, then stop the train for a short while (say 30 to 60 seconds) after which the train sets off until it reaches the building again. As the train will be moving slowly a simple track on/off is fine and there is no need for gradual braking or acceleration.

 

Ideally the sensor would turn a signal to red while the train is stopped, green when it is moving.

 

Even better if a LED flashed the the train is stopped, but this isn't critical.

 

The Heathcote Electronics Simple Station Stop does everything I need, but despite several weeks of trying and help from Heathcote, I just cannot get the IR sensor to detect the train. A surprise as I have used these detectors before.

 

I've only got 10 days to finish the layout, so I need a different solution. Can anyone suggest anything please.  It needs to be ready to install and switch on.

 

[Nigelcliffe]

Do you know if the sensors work with other materials ?   eg. passing some tinfoil or thick card across the sensor.     

 

Some plastics are IR-transparent (so the beam is not blocked), and thus adding some other material to the models might be needed - eg. putting something inside a vehicle, or a load on a wagon.   But, unless your sensor works there is no point pursuing this possibility.  

 

There are lots of other ways, with different sensors and control gear, but I can't think of anything which is "instant plug ready".   

[ColinK]

Thanks Nigel,  yes the sensors do work.  In the past I’ve used the Heathcote IR units which come with the emitter and reciever built into the circuit boards and they have worked fine.  For this micro layout I’ve had to use units where the emitter & reciever are not mounted on the boards, but are on long leads.  It’s proving virtually impossible to get them angled just right so the beam from the emitter is reflected back to the reciever.  It’s not helped by the lack of space where they go.   I’m going to have one last attempt by glueing the emitter and reciever to a bit of plasticard at hopefully the correct angle and slotting them into place.  If that doesn’t work then I’m stuck.

 

Any alternatives which are reasonable simple to build and fit would be appreciated.  I can just about build things circuit boards.

 

Perhaps a different solution would be to have a magnet under the loco (or wagon) and a reed switch in the track, so when the loco passes over the reed switch a latching relay trips in and switches track power off for, say 60 seconds.  Even better if a second set of relay contacts changed a signal to red while the train is stopped.  I’ve no idea how to make this though.

 

 

[Jeremy Cumberland]

Is there any adjustment on the receiver? Is the receiver configured as a through-beam sensor, so you place the transmitter and receiver facing each other, one on each side of the track, and the train breaks the beam?

 

In a diffuse or reflective sensor (the difference between the two is the sensitivity of the receiver), it is usual for both the transmitter and receiver to be immediately alongside each other and parallel, and they are often in the same housing. A reflective type requires a reflector to send most of the beam back to the receiver. A diffuse type relies on the object being sensed to reflect a tiny amount of the beam back to the receiver. This type can easily be upset by some other nearby object, particularly something close to the transmitter, permanently reflecting part of the beam back to the receiver. You might be able to lower the sensitivity of the receiver, but it would be better to find and remove whatever it is that is reflecting the beam.

 

I've just read the Heathcote Simple Station stop instructions. You can use the flashing LED to see when the IR sensor detects something. Is your problem that the LED never flashes, or that it always flashes?

 

It ought to be a simple matter to replace the IR transmitter and receiver with something else, if you can work out which wire is which. If you think you can get a reed switch to work, then perhaps using an NO reed switch across the IR receiver supply and signal wires would work.

[Bedlington North]

I note that you have placed the IR emitter and receiver on long leads. If you temporarily remove the long leads and connect the IR parts directly to the module does this work?

[WIMorrison]

Block Signalling do a module (and other stuff) that appears to meet your needs

 

BLOCKsignalling SSM1

[jamesed]

I use Block Signalling IR sensors on my N gauge layout and they are very good. You can adjust the sensitivity of the sensor.  They are available with fixed or wired sensors and have modules with relay outputs as well as led signal outputs.   You should find something in their range which ticks all your boxes. 

[ColinK]

Thanks everyone for you help, it’s helped me keep going to try and get this working.

 

On previous layouts I’ve used the Heathcote Electronics IR units successfully and had no problems.  They have always come as a circuit board with the IR emitter and receiver fitted to it - drill hole in track, fit circuit board, job done.

 

This application is a bit different, it a 009 micro layout just 38cm x 32cm with track on two levels.  The simple station stop is for the upper track, just a oval of Kato N gauge unitrack.  As there is no space to fit the Heathcote boards with the emitter/reciever already fitted, I’ve had to use a board with the emitter and reciever on seperate 18” long leads.  The problem appears to have been getting the emitter bouncing the IR signal off the loco so it is detected by the reciever.  I tried taping the two together, taping them together with a little wedge between them, taping them together with a carved wood block between them, the aim being to angle the emitter & reciever so the IR gets back to the reciever.  None of these worked, well one did for 5 minutes.

 

So last night I glued the emitter & reciever to a piece of plasticard with the tops angled together.

 

 

 

This morning I pushed this up through the whole between the rails, so it was vertical.

 

 

It didn’t detect the train going over.
 

After lunch I fiddled around with and discovered quite by chance, that having the unit at a angle, perhaps 25 degrees from the vertical, it worked and has kept working.

 

I’ve no idea why this works, but it does.  So I’ve now fixed the simple shuttle unit in place. It has a large red LED which flashes when the train is stopped, this is now inside a factory building to give the impression of work taking place, as well as doing its intended purpose.  The shuttle unit also has small red and green LEDs that indicate other things, I’ve used these for a two aspect colour light signal.

 

Thanks again, I think I deserve a pint for persevering.

[Jeremy Cumberland]

I'm glad you've got it working, but I am surprised by your receiver only having two wires. I would have expected three.

[cliff park]

To increase the sensitivity for infrared paint the underside of the loco, or a patch on a wagon, with red paint. I know, counter-intuitive, but red coloured things only reflect red light. A blue object, for instance, absorbs all colours except blue, which it reflects.

[RAF96]

On 18/08/2023 at 23:04, cliff park said:

To increase the sensitivity for infrared paint the underside of the loco, or a patch on a wagon, with red paint. I know, counter-intuitive, but red coloured things only reflect red light. A blue object, for instance, absorbs all colours except blue, which it reflects.

There was a toy train set that was automated by sensing different colours. Which colour was sensed resulted in say - lights on or off, horn blows, driver chats, loco speeds up or slows down, point change, etc. The coloured track elements being interchangeable about the track-plan for further play value.

[kevinlms]

21 hours ago, RAF96 said:

There was a toy train set that was automated by sensing different colours. Which colour was sensed resulted in say - lights on or off, horn blows, driver chats, loco speeds up or slows down, point change, etc. The coloured track elements being interchangeable about the track-plan for further play value.

The software later purchased by Elon Musk for his 'self-driving' cars?

[ColinK]

Thanks again everyone.  
 

I’ve tried putting a red label under the loco and it works.  Both the IR emitter and reciever have two wires, but they may not be easy to see on the photos.

 

I actually got an invitation to exhibit the micro layout on Sunday.  I was showing my Zoo Railway at Carnforth exhibition all weekend and had enough space to show the 009 as well.  The exhibition manager was happy for me to bring it along on Sunday, but I decided it was better to test it at home first.  Good decision as attendance on Sunday was very low due to some football match.