WD Dame Vera Lynn to be converted to an oil-fired loco.

[6990WitherslackHall]

The North Yorkshire Moors Railway has confirmed that WD 2-10-0 3672 Dame Vera Lynn will burn 'liquid fuels' when it returns from overhaul. 

 

 

Originally, WDs were built as either coal-fired or oil-fired locos and there is evidence that 3672 was originally built as a oil-fired loco so converting it will be historically accurate. Plus, not only it will be cleaner but they'll be able to run the loco during the fire risk season.

 

It is expected that it is the next loco to be overhauled after the completion of Black 5 44806. 

 

The link for the article can be found here.

 

[rodent279]

Sounds like a sensible move. Let's hope they also return the air brake pump, and restore to Greek livery as no. Λβ960, complete with headlight.

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by rodent279

[Joseph_Pestell]

Cleaner. I have my doubts. A good few years ago, I was on the footplate of 141R1126 when the fireman decided that the boiler tubes needed cleaning out. This is done by chucking a shovel full of sand into the firebox. The effect is quite spectacular as a thick black "smoke" ejected through the chimney. Certainly not appreciated by any householders nearby with washing on the line.

[6990WitherslackHall]

3 minutes ago, rodent279 said:

Sounds like a sensible move. Let's hope they also return the air brake pump, and restore to Greek livery as no. Λβ960, complete with headlight.

 

It's very unlikely to happen.

[Michael Hodgson]

38 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

Cleaner. I have my doubts. A good few years ago, I was on the footplate of 141R1126 when the fireman decided that the boiler tubes needed cleaning out. This is done by chucking a shovel full of sand into the firebox. The effect is quite spectacular as a thick black "smoke" ejected through the chimney. Certainly not appreciated by any householders nearby with washing on the line.

Never mind.  If it's on the NYMR the locals will just find they have a few more black sheep than they did

[adb968008]

Its a good idea, several lines should explore this idea.

 

maybe it opens the door for funding for cleaner liquid fuel trials too ?

[johnofwessex]

10 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Its a good idea, several lines should explore this idea.

 

maybe it opens the door for funding for cleaner liquid fuel trials too ?

 

I would have thought given the name that Gin might be an obvious choice for cleaner fuel

[melmoth]

I thought that Dame Vera was long way past any kind of conversion, but then realised that we were talking about the locomotive named after her.

[6990WitherslackHall]

Update on DVL:

 

3672's newly overhauled tender arrived at Newbridge earlier today. The tender has now been trip worked to Carriage and Wagon at Pickering to be displayed during the coming gala weekend.

 

 

 

(Photos are not mine)

[6990WitherslackHall]

On 19/09/2023 at 08:37, adb968008 said:

Its a good idea, several lines should explore this idea.

 

maybe it opens the door for funding for cleaner liquid fuel trials too ?

The KWVR did with a Hunslet Austerity 0-6-0ST.

Edited September 20, 2023 by 6990WitherslackHall

[papagolfjuliet]

On 20/09/2023 at 19:53, 6990WitherslackHall said:

The KWVR did with a Hunslet Austerity 0-6-0ST.

 

 "Brussels" was converted to oil firing while at Longmoor, although the oil firing apparatus was extensively modified at Haworth.

 

https://kwvr.co.uk/118-brussels-lmr-austerity-0-6-0st/

[6990WitherslackHall]

3672's tender on display at Pickering today.

 

[Mike 84C]

Festiniog locos were oil fired for years but have been converted to coal for quite a number of years now.  Fire risk was one of the reasons for oil firing plus the ability to steam the boiler harder which was needed back in 1970/80's. Maybe not now?

[papagolfjuliet]

1 hour ago, Mike 84C said:

Festiniog locos were oil fired for years but have been converted to coal for quite a number of years now.  Fire risk was one of the reasons for oil firing plus the ability to steam the boiler harder which was needed back in 1970/80's. Maybe not now?

 

I gather that the main reason is cost. FfR engines used to burn ship's waste oil, but when this was reclassified as hazardous waste the railway had to turn to paying full whack for fuel oil.

[stewartingram]

FR also ued used oil from cars. I remember a local group collecting it (there were many diy oil changes done by drivers in those days, much more than nowadays). The local group then passed it on to the F.

[SR71]

I believe Dame Vera Lynn still holds the record back to Pickering after (I think) Taw Valley slipped to a stand and delayed all trains. Made up something like 30mins from Goathland?

 

I don't remember the exact details but it was summer and it was almost dark by the time we got back. I won't forget her hunting, the coal falling off the tender while the crew were hanging on, and the train braking for the curves. I should imagine the statute of limitation has passed for that crew. Sadly also something of the past now everyone has a GPS Speedo in their pocket.

[6990WitherslackHall]

36 minutes ago, SR71 said:

I believe Dame Vera Lynn still holds the record back to Pickering after (I think) Taw Valley slipped to a stand and delayed all trains. Made up something like 30mins from Goathland?

 

I don't remember the exact details but it was summer and it was almost dark by the time we got back. I won't forget her hunting, the coal falling off the tender while the crew were hanging on, and the train braking for the curves. I should imagine the statute of limitation has passed for that crew. Sadly also something of the past now everyone has a GPS Speedo in their pocket.

How fast were they going? Surely not 25mph?

[SR71]

Hard to say. We were sat at Goathland for a long time.

 

I'm sure the trip average was 25mph.

Edited October 7, 2023 by SR71

[Mike 84C]

FR used to buy a product known as LMD which marine engines ran on. Its a by product from processing heavy crude to produce tarmac coating used for road construction. Higher sulphur than gas oil and can/ could only be burnt on the high seas and external combustion eg, loco fireboxes.  Mainly produced in the UK by Nynas.

[johnofwessex]

14 hours ago, Mike 84C said:

FR used to buy a product known as LMD which marine engines ran on. Its a by product from processing heavy crude to produce tarmac coating used for road construction. Higher sulphur than gas oil and can/ could only be burnt on the high seas and external combustion eg, loco fireboxes.  Mainly produced in the UK by Nynas.

 

I had an interesting discussion one day with a fireman on Shieldhall about this, at one stage both Shieldhall and Waverley ninth the stuff but both now run on gas oil, basically to comply with emission regulations.

 

 

[Mike 84C]

Its over twenty years since I used to buy the stuff for the FR so I am out of touch with emission regs, for external combustion but I also tried mixing with "washing gas" oil , this had been used to purge/clean other tanks, also aviation kerosene which gave an interesting aroma to BL and lots of steam!

    I cannot really see much difference in regs for burning oil or coal in a loco firebox, if there are any and with oil you do know how it will perform whereas coal is a bit of a stick your finger in the wind game!

[papagolfjuliet]

On 07/10/2023 at 21:44, SR71 said:

I believe Dame Vera Lynn still holds the record back to Pickering after (I think) Taw Valley slipped to a stand and delayed all trains. Made up something like 30mins from Goathland?

 

I don't remember the exact details but it was summer and it was almost dark by the time we got back. I won't forget her hunting, the coal falling off the tender while the crew were hanging on, and the train braking for the curves. I should imagine the statute of limitation has passed for that crew. Sadly also something of the past now everyone has a GPS Speedo in their pocket.

 

A rival for that record must be the last Pikcering to Grosmont train of the 1986 Autumn Gala, on which I had the good fortune to be leaning out of the window of the leading coach. 6619 had slipped to a stand on the bank on an earlier service and by the time our train arrived at Pickering behind 841 we were very late indeed. 6619 then coupled up to the front with something to prove and with the S15 still on the back we set off. All was staid enough at first but once past Levisham both crews opened up and I have never had a more exciting steam run in my life. I well remember one of 6619's then-owners, also her driver on that occasion, with his head out of the cab and a lok of grim determination on his face, and a TTI who subsequently became a senior NYMR Trust officer leaning out of the window opposite me and making Wild West 'Yee haa!' noises.

[adb968008]

Ive a tape recording of a a double header of 2 preserved diesels doing a 4.5 mile preserved line in under 7 minutes, start to stop. Others were between 7 and 14 on the same tape cassette, it was 30+ years ago.

Separately i have fond memories of 6619 at the moors… the noise that loco made on 6-7 coach trains was absolutely fantastic.

Edited October 17, 2023 by adb968008

[faulcon1]

In the 1950's in New South Wales Australia on the railways they imported 20 Baldwin locomotives which came as oil fired locos. To keep the cost down the railways basically filled the tenders with "crud" and it was so thick that it needed a heater in the tender just to get it to flow to the burner. Oil burning technology has come a long way since those early days and even the days when the Ffestiniog and Vale of Rheidol burnt oil in their locos. In Australia Puffing Billy was the first to take advantage of it for they run through a forest area which is prone to suffering from red hot cinders from hard working coal fired steam locos which can set the forest ablaze. They converted one loco a 2-6-2 tank 14A to oil firing but it doesn't use bunker grade oil but diesel. The conversion is a Swiss design and is not permanent so in the future if they wish to convert the loco back to a coal burner they can. The area of line they want the oil burner for is between Lakeside and Gembrook which has 1 in 30 grades that the tank locos are pulling 7-8 coach trains up single headed so they're working extremely hard. When working hard there's little to no smoke from the engine and it's cost effective for the railway for they have diesels too so there's no new supplier to be found to provide fuel. There's no cost involved in disposing of coal ash which unlike wood ash can't be used on railway station gardens. They have a Climax geared loco that's a wood burner. The Ffestiniog and VoR used an old fashioned burner that swirls in the firebox whereas 14A's burner looks nothing like that as shown in the link below.

With coal supplies become ever more intermittent and coal being looked upon as a dirty filthy fuel perhaps this new way of burning an oil derived fuel is worth talking a look at. 

Sure the smell of coal burning will be gone but it's better to have steam locos steaming than no steam locos steaming at all.  

 

https://puffingbilly.com.au/news/workshop-blog/would-you-rather/          

Edited November 4, 2023 by faulcon1