Large Scale Display Loco

[Jeremy Cumberland]

58 minutes ago, Richard Wills said:

But those who think that 3D is everything , print whole models . That takes hundreds of hours and is not the best way if the shape is large and straight forward .

That's a path I had already been down. I drew up a 3D model of a slate wagon in 7/8" scale (1:13.7). My original plan was to just get the bobbins and axleboxes printed and make most of the rest out of wood, but then I thought why not print the whole thing...until I looked at how much Shapeways would charge. So wood (and some metal) it was:

[Richard Wills]

Exactly Jeremy . you've got a great example of multiple material and technique building right there . By doing that ,you have increased your affordability and therefore your options . (I like your track too!)

Imagine the cost of building a metre long Loco in either metal or 3D printing . Off the scale ! You can buy a nice electric powered kit for about £3000 , but you can build a near identical wooden loco for a few hundred . If you want it to work , you could probably throw a £1000 at it and have a running chassis that would still leave you with money in the bank . (quite a lot of money -£1500) 

[Richard Wills]

One of the interesting little illusions that we can create in no time at all , is rivet detail . The easiest way is just to put a penny size blob of PVA (decent stuff like the white Gorilla Glue or the PVA by Evostik ) , onto a piece of card . using the card as a Palette , you just dip a cocktail stick in to get a small drop, then drop it onto the primered surface . Because the glue is quite thick , it forms a sort of half sphere . Plus if you get it wrong , just wipe it off . You can do a load of rivets in no time at all . 

Below you can see the Red *"HOGWARTS" version that my nephew wanted as he is massive fan . On reflection I didnt spend too much time getting the rivets exactly right as I knew he just wanted "The train from the film " .

You get the idea though . The cab roof should have had more small rivets really but since I never really wanted to make a red loco , I was in a rush !

[Richard Wills]

Going back to the wood curving . For one offs , you just need to make up some doughnut type rings to hold the boiler skin in shape while you heat it up or soak it . I prefer the heating method . Its pretty instant and once cool , it stays "set ".  You could tape it to a bottle or anything that doesnt mind the heat . As I had to make a few (and perhaps go on making them ) I made a tube outer jig . The skin tries to straighten out so naturally fill the inside of the tube uniformly . The stepped joint is great for adding glueing area . Finally I add an extra strip on the inside of the zig zag .  Heat gun or pop in an oven then allow to cool . You can see below that I'm very consistent on it . 

[Richard Wills]

Even in the bare wood , the boilers look very slick . As I said , the very fine grain is not intrusive and the different shades of wood and scorched highlights add depth . 

[Richard Wills]

So obviously you have figured out that I am building quite a few models form the same kit . Each one has slight differences and definitely different finishes . 

My point is that wood is very versatile . 

Look at the picture above of the Tender in particular . Clever yes , nice wood , yes . Some people just love the wooden one . In the same way that a wooden ship is rather beautiful . The shape + wood texture and colour is acceptable as a rather detailed show piece . 

However , to the pure modeller it doesnt look real .

How about this then ? Same model , primed , painted and pva glue rivets added . There are still details to be added like the cab number , but you can see the potential . 

In fact , I was looking at the other thread on here showing the realistic photos taken . Absolutely stunning . I certainly would choose a heavily weathered model in the right setting . Imagine the effect you can create at this scale .

I did the lining in vinyl . Its quick and much cheaper than waterslide . 

[CKPR]

I recall an interesting article in Model Railways Seprember 1975 on building large scale NER  locomotives in wood ["Drawing Room Trophies"  by Colin Bullock] - very impressive results and I often wonder what became of the models described as they were all made on commission.

[Richard Wills]

As you say , many models disappear over the years . especially one offs or short production runs . Its a shame really . Because maybe if more people had seen the models you mentioned in 1975 , we might now have a whole selection of wooden locomotive models to choose from . 

At the moment I have two on Display at the Swindon Steam Museum and a further two at Didcot . 

Both appropriate as Swindon was obviously where the Halls were built and Didcot , has just had a visit form Pitchford Hall .

[jjb1970]

There are lots of modelling materials and they all have their place. Wood is an excellent material in that depending on form/thickness it can be formed, turned and carved into pretty much any shape relatively easily and can provide robust yet light structures if people have the necessary skill. The main weakness I have found if that unless fully dried some woods can swell and shrink quite significantly and end up cracking the paint when it exceeds elasticity of the paint.

 

Another neglected and under appreciated material is card. Railway modellers use card for buildings but it can be used for so much more. Cheap and versatile, I have seen stunning ship models made in card. In fact some of the most detailed and impressive models I saw in shipyards, which were built like full size ships with the same frames, stringers, floors, plating etc were primarily card. However they need careful handling and durability is an issue.

[Richard Wills]

On 11/10/2023 at 01:55, jjb1970 said:

There are lots of modelling materials and they all have their place. Wood is an excellent material in that depending on form/thickness it can be formed, turned and carved into pretty much any shape relatively easily and can provide robust yet light structures if people have the necessary skill. The main weakness I have found if that unless fully dried some woods can swell and shrink quite significantly and end up cracking the paint when it exceeds elasticity of the paint.

 

Another neglected and under appreciated material is card. Railway modellers use card for buildings but it can be used for so much more. Cheap and versatile, I have seen stunning ship models made in card. In fact some of the most detailed and impressive models I saw in shipyards, which were built like full size ships with the same frames, stringers, floors, plating etc were primarily card. However they need careful handling and durability is an issue.

Very good points indeed . In the model aircraft world (sorry to keep mentioning it ) we have been using wood for over a century . But as you say . the wood has been traditionally sealed with tissue and dope which bridges any developing gaps and helps to form a resilient composite . material . 

In my scale aircraft , I have used (and influenced hundreds of others ) brown wrapping paper pasted on with PVA just like when you wall paper . PVA is heat reactive so you can even iron it on . The PVA soaks into the paper and the wood to give an eggshell like finish which is very strong . 

However , those models would be outside for hundreds of flights over say 5 years . Including rain sometimes .  Our indoors models suffer nothing like that .

I had one of the prototype trains  in the window of a very hot and sunny room and the boiler did crack a little . But I was using obechi veneer at the time , which is less dense and much lighter than the marine ply used in the current version . This high quality marine ply needs only a little sanding sealer or varnish to make it pretty much bullet proof . 

In fact when I made the three coloured Locos I did cover the first boiler with brown paper as I was concerned about the finish (not the cracks with this wood) , but by the third one it was a quick varnish , then primer then red aerosol . 

I could have got a better finish if I had only one to make , but seven in one go is a challenge !

[Richard Wills]

On 11/10/2023 at 01:55, jjb1970 said:

 

This was the first wooden prototype which sat in the sun for over a year . The wood had not been treated at all or sealed as it was only a stepping stone model . You can see a couple of little cracks but as I said, this wood is very light and grainy . 

The wood I use for the latest version is very dense and being a composite in its own right (at least two bonded skins) it cannot separate to form cracks . This version also had 3D printed Cylinders . 

Although, the people  that like the wooden version , like as much real wood as possible , so I have reverted to wooden cylinders for them . 

Edited October 12, 2023 by Richard Wills

[Richard Wills]

If you look at this later variant , you can see how much sharper it looks and also how dense the skin is . No paint or varnish of course .  

The wood "coal" was fun . I tried coal and it was too contrasting and detracted from the wood look . So I chopped wood , coated it in PVA then hit it with the paint stripping heat gun . it scorches the wood to give contrast and sets the PVa like jam . 

The funny thing about the wood one is - most people prefer it .!  Even the crew at Epping and Ongar Railway like the wooden one best . 

Horses for courses I suppose .