A Southern L1 from a heap of old junk - mostly!

[Pierview]

I have always had a soft spot for the Tri-ang L1 4-4-0 which, when it was introduced in 1960, was that rarest of beasts, a ready to run Southern locomotive in 4mm scale. It is sobering to reflect that at the time of the model's introduction some of the prototype engines were still in service, albeit in their final year or so. I first saw the Tri-ang model in action in the summer of 1960 at the local model railway exhibition and immediately put one on my wanted list. That wish was granted at Christmas when I received a shiny new L1 as my main present from my parents. I still have it to this day and would not part with it, although it looks rather different these days with a detailed body, Romford wheels and a Wills tender. Despite these modifications, however. it still has the inherent Tri-ang faults of having front buffers that are too high and a cab full of X04 motor. Over the years several L1's have gone through my hands, including one which I have converted to an L, but for some time I have nurtured the idea of using another L1 body to create a more convincing model. The catalyst for starting this project was the chance purchase on E-bay of an assembled Wills Q tender painted in a strange colourful livery. It didn't cost very much and shortly afterwards Jeepy of this forum kindly donated a slightly damaged L1 body. A rummage in my spares box produced an ancient Tri-ang bogie with the correct axle spacing, an unused set of Markits bogie wheels and a pair of Wills Schools coupling rods. E-bay searches located a set of used Romford 26mm driving wheels together with an unused set of Hornby tender wheels and suddenly I was in business! Clearly this project was going to turn into an ASP (All Spare Parts) loco similar to those I used to regularly turn out in younger and more impecunious modelling days. I still needed loco and internal tender frames though and I purchased new Comet examples . The loco frames are actually for a Schools class but the wheelbase is correct for an L1 as well. 

 

The photo shows my starting point of bits and pieces.

 

I began work by re-profiling the Schools frames to match the L1. The small oval cut out between the wheels was not needed so I made blanking plates from scrap brass and soldered them into position.

 

I  assembled the frames using spare comet spacers and fitted High Level  horn blocks to the leading axlebox. I made a simple pivoting rod which bears on the leading axle and the bogie. The gear box is the trusty High Level Road Runner + and to this I added an "OO Works" motor which I had in stock. I saw the latter advertised last year and purchased one to try it out. My first impression is that it is a smooth and powerful unit. The Wills coupling rods were thinned down slightly and I added sandboxes fabricated from plasticard. The front sandboxes will be fitted to the loco body.

 

 

I assembled the tender inner frames and compensated the two leading wheels. A simple pick up was arranged to collect current from the rear wheelset, and the wire from this is soldered to a split pin which slots into a small length of fine bore tube which is soldered to the loco pick up plate.

 

With the chassis running quite nicely it is now time to turn my attention to the loco and tender bodies. Here is a posed shot before the carnage begins!

 

 

More to follow in due course.

 

Barry

 

 

[hayfield]

2 hours ago, Pierview said:

I have always had a soft spot for the Tri-ang L1 4-4-0 which, when it was introduced in 1960, was that rarest of beasts, a ready to run Southern locomotive in 4mm scale. It is sobering to reflect that at the time of the model's introduction some of the prototype engines were still in service, albeit in their final year or so. I first saw the Tri-ang model in action in the summer of 1960 at the local model railway exhibition and immediately put one on my wanted list. That wish was granted at Christmas when I received a shiny new L1 as my main present from my parents. I still have it to this day and would not part with it, although it looks rather different these days with a detailed body, Romford wheels and a Wills tender. Despite these modifications, however. it still has the inherent Tri-ang faults of having front buffers that are too high and a cab full of X04 motor. Over the years several L1's have gone through my hands, including one which I have converted to an L, but for some time I have nurtured the idea of using another L1 body to create a more convincing model. The catalyst for starting this project was the chance purchase on E-bay of an assembled Wills Q tender painted in a strange colourful livery. It didn't cost very much and shortly afterwards Jeepy of this forum kindly donated a slightly damaged L1 body. A rummage in my spares box produced an ancient Tri-ang bogie with the correct axle spacing, an unused set of Markits bogie wheels and a pair of Wills Schools coupling rods. E-bay searches located a set of used Romford 26mm driving wheels together with an unused set of Hornby tender wheels and suddenly I was in business! Clearly this project was going to turn into an ASP (All Spare Parts) loco similar to those I used to regularly turn out in younger and more impecunious modelling days. I still needed loco and internal tender frames though and I purchased new Comet examples . The loco frames are actually for a Schools class but the wheelbase is correct for an L1 as well. 

 

The photo shows my starting point of bits and pieces.

 

I began work by re-profiling the Schools frames to match the L1. The small oval cut out between the wheels was not needed so I made blanking plates from scrap brass and soldered them into position.

 

I  assembled the frames using spare comet spacers and fitted High Level  horn blocks to the leading axlebox. I made a simple pivoting rod which bears on the leading axle and the bogie. The gear box is the trusty High Level Road Runner + and to this I added an "OO Works" motor which I had in stock. I saw the latter advertised last year and purchased one to try it out. My first impression is that it is a smooth and powerful unit. The Wills coupling rods were thinned down slightly and I added sandboxes fabricated from plasticard. The front sandboxes will be fitted to the loco body.

 

 

I assembled the tender inner frames and compensated the two leading wheels. A simple pick up was arranged to collect current from the rear wheelset, and the wire from this is soldered to a split pin which slots into a small length of fine bore tube which is soldered to the loco pick up plate.

 

With the chassis running quite nicely it is now time to turn my attention to the loco and tender bodies. Here is a posed shot before the carnage begins!

 

 

More to follow in due course.

 

Barry

 

 

 

Barry

 

Looking very interesting

[Pierview]

I've started work on the loco body and have been busy attacking it with saw, files and emery boards. I removed the chimney, snifting valves, injectors, steps (or what was left of them), buffers , handrails and ejector pipe. I also fretted out the under boiler blanking plates which detract from the look of an otherwise quite good moulding. I expected to have to fill in the consequent gap under the boiler with curved plasticard, but, as luck would have it, I found a suitable white metal section in my scrap box. I must  have cut this away from some long forgotten kit for motor clearance but it's origin is now a mystery. However, it fits perfectly and will be glued into position when the rebuild commences. Here is the body after conclusion of the surgery.

 

 

There is a bit more cleaning up to do before I start the rebuild, with quite a lot of detailing to be done. Meanwhile the tender awaits a date with the paint stripper!

 

Barry 

 

 

 

[Virgil]

Nice work Barry, I look forward to seeing how this progresses.

[Pierview]

I have made some more progress on the L1 project. Whilst the tender remains pickled in Dettol I have pressed on with detailing the loco body. I found most of the bits I needed in my spares box but I did purchase the chimney, back head, safety valves and whistle as spares from PDK Models. However the latter two items will not be fitted until the body paintwork is completed. Other fittings were made from scratch, including the steps. I worked to an L1 drawing that was published as far back as the January 1961 Model Railway News. 

 

 

 

The front buffer beam on the Tri-ang moulding was decidedly skinny so I made this deeper by cementing a plasticard strip underneath. The buffer beam was then covered with an overlay of 0.005 brass sheet with rivet detail being suggested by pricking  through from the reverse with a compass point. It could be better but hopefully will not look too bad when painted. A coat of paint covers a multitude of sins! 

 

 

The vast emptiness of the cab interior that was necessary to house the X04 motor on the original Tri-ang mechanism was filled in with plasticard, and the cast back head glued in place. The cab interior is no more than a typical representation, and whist it is not that accurate I am hoping that it will look the part when a crew is in place.  

 

My next move will be to fish the tender out of it's Dettol bath, and ,with luck, reduce it to component parts prior to a rebuild. More to follow in due course.

 

Barry

[Pierview]

The tender has emerged from it's soak in Dettol and has been broken down to the individual parts as shown. I find this process to be very satisfying even though it can be a messy business at times. Re-assembly commenced this evening and I hope to make more progress in the next few days.

 

 

Barry

 

Edited October 15, 2023 by Pierview

[Ben Alder]

My type of modelling! Looking forward to progress reports....

[DCB]

Looks good   steps are really impressive. Wish I could work to those standards, but ,...Are you sure the bogie wheelbase is correct?   It looks too short to me. or too far back. Maybe it's loose?  Bogie pivots are habitually centred on the smokebox saddle centre line.   I often make my own bogies from brass strip as Triang ones tend to be too short.    Sometimes using Bachmann split axle wheels to give near frictionless extra pickups.

Edited October 15, 2023 by DCB

[Pierview]

11 hours ago, DCB said:

Looks good   steps are really impressive. Wish I could work to those standards, but ,...Are you sure the bogie wheelbase is correct?   It looks too short to me. or too far back. Maybe it's loose?  Bogie pivots are habitually centred on the smokebox saddle centre line.   I often make my own bogies from brass strip as Triang ones tend to be too short.    Sometimes using Bachmann split axle wheels to give near frictionless extra pickups.

Thanks DCB. The steps are quite simple fabrications from scraps of NS sheet. I solder two pieces together then stick on cutouts from the photocopied plan and file round these. When I have the correct profile (remembering to leave enough material to fold over for the fixing tab) the two pieces are separated with the soldering iron. The tricky bit is soldering on the step treads, but these could of course be glued. Have a go -  you might be pleasantly surprised! The Maunsell cranked in steps on Southern locomotives are very distinctive but so far as I know there are no etched versions available.

 

Regarding the bogie, the wheelbase is correct and according to my plan the bogie is correctly located.  I suspect that it looks short because I haven't yet fitted guard irons behind the buffer beam. These should close the gap somewhat I think . Having said this, there is only so far you can go with a conversion of this nature and I wouldn't pretend to get everything exactly right!

 

Barry

[cypherman]

Hi Barry,

I also have had a soft spot for the Triang 4-4-0 tender engines. Both the LMS 2P and SR L1 variants. It was an LMS 2P that became my first attempt at modifying an engine when I was 13. I still have it in my collection today. Do not think I will ever part with it. I do like to try and keep all my engines that are VNMC that way un modified. So most of mine have not been fettled with in any way. I only tend to modify engines that I buy in for that purpose. Any way these are my Triang L1 and 2p 4-4-0s. Please note that the odd front wheel on the malachite L1 has been corrected to the correct one in both spokes and colour. It came like this when  bought it. I look forwards to seeing what looks like an excellent build finished.

Edited October 16, 2023 by cypherman

[Pierview]

33 minutes ago, cypherman said:

Hi Barry,

I also have had a soft spot for the Triang 4-4-0 tender engines. Both the LMS 2P and SR L1 variants. It was an LMS 2P that became my first attempt at modifying an engine when I was 13. I still have it in my collection today. Do not think I will ever part with it. I do like to try and keep all my engines that are VNMC that way un modified. So most  mine have not been fettled with in any way. I only tend to modify engines that I buy in for that purpose. Any way these are my Triang L1 and 2p 4-4-0s. Please note that the odd front wheel on the malachite L1 has been corrected to the correct one in both spokes and colour. It came like this when  bought it. I look forwards to seeing what looks like an excellent build finished.

 Some nostalgic views there Cypherman! I seem to recall a 1960's article in the RM or MRC on converting an L1 to an LMS 2P but Tri-ang then went ahead with their own version. 

Barry

[The Evil Bus Driver]

On 02/10/2023 at 15:39, Pierview said:

I have always had a soft spot for the Tri-ang L1 4-4-0 which, when it was introduced in 1960, was that rarest of beasts, a ready to run Southern locomotive in 4mm scale. It is sobering to reflect that at the time of the model's introduction some of the prototype engines were still in service, albeit in their final year or so. I first saw the Tri-ang model in action in the summer of 1960 at the local model railway exhibition and immediately put one on my wanted list. That wish was granted at Christmas when I received a shiny new L1 as my main present from my parents. I still have it to this day and would not part with it, although it looks rather different these days with a detailed body, Romford wheels and a Wills tender. Despite these modifications, however. it still has the inherent Tri-ang faults of having front buffers that are too high and a cab full of X04 motor. Over the years several L1's have gone through my hands, including one which I have converted to an L, but for some time I have nurtured the idea of using another L1 body to create a more convincing model. The catalyst for starting this project was the chance purchase on E-bay of an assembled Wills Q tender painted in a strange colourful livery. It didn't cost very much and shortly afterwards Jeepy of this forum kindly donated a slightly damaged L1 body. A rummage in my spares box produced an ancient Tri-ang bogie with the correct axle spacing, an unused set of Markits bogie wheels and a pair of Wills Schools coupling rods. E-bay searches located a set of used Romford 26mm driving wheels together with an unused set of Hornby tender wheels and suddenly I was in business! Clearly this project was going to turn into an ASP (All Spare Parts) loco similar to those I used to regularly turn out in younger and more impecunious modelling days. I still needed loco and internal tender frames though and I purchased new Comet examples . The loco frames are actually for a Schools class but the wheelbase is correct for an L1 as well. 

 

The photo shows my starting point of bits and pieces.

 

I began work by re-profiling the Schools frames to match the L1. The small oval cut out between the wheels was not needed so I made blanking plates from scrap brass and soldered them into position.

 

I  assembled the frames using spare comet spacers and fitted High Level  horn blocks to the leading axlebox. I made a simple pivoting rod which bears on the leading axle and the bogie. The gear box is the trusty High Level Road Runner + and to this I added an "OO Works" motor which I had in stock. I saw the latter advertised last year and purchased one to try it out. My first impression is that it is a smooth and powerful unit. The Wills coupling rods were thinned down slightly and I added sandboxes fabricated from plasticard. The front sandboxes will be fitted to the loco body.

 

 

I assembled the tender inner frames and compensated the two leading wheels. A simple pick up was arranged to collect current from the rear wheelset, and the wire from this is soldered to a split pin which slots into a small length of fine bore tube which is soldered to the loco pick up plate.

 

With the chassis running quite nicely it is now time to turn my attention to the loco and tender bodies. Here is a posed shot before the carnage begins!

 

 

More to follow in due course.

 

Barry

 

 

Like it!

 

This is something I refer to as Scratch-Bashing, ie not exactly scratchbuilding, kit building or kitbashing but still obtaining a complete loco by putting stuff together. 

Edited October 17, 2023 by The Evil Bus Driver

[Pierview]

The tender has now been reassembled with mounting plates added to secure the bolts that hold the inner chassis in position. Handrails and lamp brackets have been added, together with a brake column, the latter item being missing from the tender as acquired. The  white metal tender is really too heavy for a small plastic bodied loco and it would make sense to use a lighter plastic bodied Bachmann version. I did look at this possibility but ridiculous prices were being asked and this is, after all, supposed to be an economy project! I have therefore stuck with the old Wills tender but for the moment have dispensed with the extra tender pick up as it was causing too much drag. I have now added front guard irons to the loco and these were fashioned from scrap brass strip.

 

 

 

For better or worse the major work on this project is now completed, and I now await the weather to settle down to enable me to go outside and spray paint the loco and tender. To be continued.

 

Barry

 

T

 

 

[Nick C]

Looks very good - and inspiring, as I've got an old L1 kicking around in the bits box waiting for me to do exactly this to it!

 

Given the similarities, would a newer 2P chassis from the Mainline or Hornby models fit? I've yet to manage a successfully running kit chassis...

[Pierview]

7 hours ago, Nick C said:

Looks very good - and inspiring, as I've got an old L1 kicking around in the bits box waiting for me to do exactly this to it!

 

Given the similarities, would a newer 2P chassis from the Mainline or Hornby models fit? I've yet to manage a successfully running kit chassis...

Thanks Nick. Regarding a RTR  chassis , I think you will find that the wheelbase of the 2P is slightly short (9' 6'' as opposed to 10''-0'') but the Hornby T9 is, I think, correct. It does, however, have traction tyres on one wheel set and problems with disintegrating motor mounts are widely known! A considerable improvement can be made to the old Tri-ang chassis by simply re-wheeling  and adding a few details. If you want to dispense with the front boiler blanking plates and model the full boiler, as I have done, you would also need to get out the hacksaw and cut down the large cast weight to the top of the frames. 

 

Barry

[Virgil]

Very nice workmanship shown, well done.

I fully agree about the white metal tender being a bit too heavy for the loco, there is a relatively cheap option to replace it with a tender from the Great British Locomotives static model of the SR/BR N class as a donor. The tender will accept pinpoint axles running directly in the axle boxes once the wheel/ chassis casting is removed 👍

[Pierview]

4 hours ago, Virgil said:

Very nice workmanship shown, well done.

I fully agree about the white metal tender being a bit too heavy for the loco, there is a relatively cheap option to replace it with a tender from the Great British Locomotives static model of the SR/BR N class as a donor. The tender will accept pinpoint axles running directly in the axle boxes once the wheel/ chassis casting is removed 👍

Thank you Virgil.

I have never used any of the GBL range (in fact I don't even know the complete list!) but that sounds a useful source if I do a similar exercise in the future. 

Barry

[33C]

52 minutes ago, Pierview said:

Thank you Virgil.

I have never used any of the GBL range (in fact I don't even know the complete list!) but that sounds a useful source if I do a similar exercise in the future. 

Barry

Get 'em quick before they become "L@@K!, RARE!".

[45568]

Excellent work on this Barry, and something I have the parts for using a T9 chassis and Bachmann or Hornby Arthur 3500 gallon tender.

If anyone wants to do this with a head start, this may be of interest, no connection etc.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/175980255373?hash=item28f93d988d:g:qiMAAOSwor9lNSjy&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwCYXoCfpHum7hpUMp9moUQtc8jQSVM0PCDHiao9lWKvw187Wz2Nzo5S7Xe2Pj38PsspTatkt2MdTE2YImBiumSv65gV0hfFvetnprdD6LoHCGQKbn2ChxvHh09PLqhjrYQIX8tptoI9RYv0pq%2FRqUSazswPRRgjsnZv7wUTcqBwWmO4eD6iXtDBqYbC%2BRctPnargXNbkoFWcV3Yvgfe06770dXkEVKCVOYAcAaNg4KvZeeO2GxouDVCS45T7Ym8s1A%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR7yl1r3rYg

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

[Pierview]

At last I have managed to complete the L1, and the finished result is shown here. The Model Master lining took me quite a long time to apply and it was not an exercise that I enjoyed on this occasion.  I was not helped by the fact that I ran out of corner pieces and found great difficulty in getting replacements. I suspect that there are supply problems at present as none of my usual dealers had any in stock. In the end I managed to find a bespoke lining set for a standard tank and cut this up to get what I needed. Something of a waste and also a bit expensive but I could see no other way of completing the job quickly. As I didn't see any L1's in service, I had no particular engine that I wished to portray, and therefore  decided on 31757 . This is a nod to Tri-ang as 31757  was also the identity of the original model which emerged from the Margate factory all those years ago.

 

 

 

 

It has been an interesting exercise which didn't cost very much and I hope that I have achieved my objective of building a slightly better L1. The next project will involve a somewhat smaller locomotive, and more on that in due course.

 

Barry  

 

[33C]

Good job! I heartily recommend getting a bow pen. A cheap one can be had for as little as £1.89. Dip it in thinned paint, close it up, wipe off excess, set the gap to thickness of line, use a ruler,( i raise my metal ruler on tiny blobs of blu-tac to hold it steady ) and draw steadily along. Or move the piece if easier. You can free hand the curves. No more slave to the HMRS sheets! Below is the sort of results you can get, and i am still a novice with it. You can also write with it. Nothing ventured, nothing gained!  (Incidentally, the LTSR "Tilbury Tank" started off as an L1.)

Edited November 3, 2023 by 33C
added photo.

[Pierview]

10 hours ago, 33C said:

Good job! I heartily recommend getting a bow pen. A cheap one can be had for as little as £1.89. Dip it in thinned paint, close it up, wipe off excess, set the gap to thickness of line, use a ruler,( i raise my metal ruler on tiny blobs of blu-tac to hold it steady ) and draw steadily along. Or move the piece if easier. You can free hand the curves. No more slave to the HMRS sheets! Below is the sort of results you can get, and i am still a novice with it. You can also write with it. Nothing ventured, nothing gained!  (Incidentally, the LTSR "Tilbury Tank" started off as an L1.)

Some fascinating and cleverly crafted conversions there 33c - well done.  I tried a bow pen once but didn't really get on with it. Subsequently I used to hand line using a mapping pen (anyone remember those?) but I am not sure that I have the patience and steadiness of hand  for it these days! 

Barry