Crossing Nose Gauge EM

[NFWEM57]

The 2nd Edition of the 2mm Scale Association's book on Track has a crossing nose gauge, sometimes called a button gauge, on page 49.  I can find no such gauge on the web or any mention on RMWeb.  The book gives no dimensions, that I can find and I have not seen it mentioned in other track making  references, Iain Rice, Norman Solomon, etc.  Have never seen any for sale either.

 

Does anybody know what the dimensions would be for an EM version would be, I assume 18.2mm given that the 2mm scale version is 9.42mm and matches the roller gauge dimensions?  Or indeed, if it used in gauges other than 2mm scale..!   The book says it is an essential gauge along with the roller and triangular gauges but I have not seen it used in OO or EM.  Is its a nice to have or very useful?

[Mark Forrest]

Intriguing, not something I've come across when building EM or P4 track.

 

I'm a bit confused though; initially you say there are no dimensions given for the button gauge then go on to say the 2mm FS one is 9.42mm.

 

I wonder if it's for checking flangeway clearance through the common crossing?

[NFWEM57]

53 minutes ago, Mark Forrest said:

then go on to say the 2mm FS one is 9.42mm.

Than you for the reply.  Apologies, there is a dimension given in the 2mm Scale Association shop, who sell them.  So, as 9.42mm is the 2mm gauge, I assume the EM equivalent would be 18.2mm.  Image is from the 2mm Scale Association Web Site and made form brass.

 

 

The book indicates it is primarily used for setting a crossing nose from the (fixed straight stock rail) or a closure rail gauged from it.  In other parts of the book it shows them being used to gauge the curved stock rail from the crossing V.  Seems to have quite few uses.

 

Have a lathe , so I  might manufacture a few as they seem to be useful for the 2mm community.

[Mark Forrest]

I tend to build up a common crossing as a subassembly then use roller gauges to gauge it from the stock rail.

To use the button gauge you'd need to position the vee first then add the wings rails in situ.  Not suggesting that is wrong, just that it's not the way I choose to do it. 

Thinking about it, I might be more inclined to do it that way when building copper clad point work, but with chaired point work on ply or plastic timbers I like to have the common crossing assembled.

 

In my experience you can never have too many gauges and yes, I think you're right an EM version used as described would be 18.2mm diameter.

[NFWEM57]

I'm on a track building weekend in a few weeks time, I'll make a couple to take with me.  On assembled common crossing, I think that is the approach I will use as well.

[Stephen Freeman]

The large end is for gauging normal track, Whilst I have some and do use them, I prefer to use the standard gauge which is also of the same diameter and can be used in the same way, plus it can also be used to set the checkrails etc.

 

For EM the EMGS sell proper checkrail gauges, flangeway gauge and plain track gauges.

[hayfield]

On 13/10/2023 at 13:45, NFWEM57 said:

Than you for the reply.  Apologies, there is a dimension given in the 2mm Scale Association shop, who sell them.  So, as 9.42mm is the 2mm gauge, I assume the EM equivalent would be 18.2mm.  Image is from the 2mm Scale Association Web Site and made form brass.

 

 

The book indicates it is primarily used for setting a crossing nose from the (fixed straight stock rail) or a closure rail gauged from it.  In other parts of the book it shows them being used to gauge the curved stock rail from the crossing V.  Seems to have quite few uses.

 

Have a lathe , so I  might manufacture a few as they seem to be useful for the 2mm community.

 

Usually in 4mm scale, both Scalefour and the EMGS sell wing rail gauges. Normally a flat piece of metal strip .68mm wide for P4 or 1mm for EM gauge, 

 

The check rail like the stock rail is set by their own gauge. Care must be taken with multi gauges as they can lead to inaccuracies 

 

An Alternative to the basic wing rail gauge is made by D.D.Wheelwrights for both P4 & EM gauges called a Block gauge with crossing alignment aid. These are sold by the appropriate society. The block gauge is very useful for several gauges

https://85a.uk/templot/archive/topics/topic_2293.php

[NFWEM57]

4 hours ago, hayfield said:

basic wing rail gauge

Thank you, have one and will likely use it in anger in a weeks time on a track building course.!

[NeilWatson248]

On 13/10/2023 at 13:45, NFWEM57 said:

Than you for the reply.  Apologies, there is a dimension given in the 2mm Scale Association shop, who sell them.  So, as 9.42mm is the 2mm gauge, I assume the EM equivalent would be 18.2mm.  Image is from the 2mm Scale Association Web Site and made form brass.

 

 

The book indicates it is primarily used for setting a crossing nose from the (fixed straight stock rail) or a closure rail gauged from it.  In other parts of the book it shows them being used to gauge the curved stock rail from the crossing V.  Seems to have quite few uses.

 

Have a lathe , so I  might manufacture a few as they seem to be useful for the 2mm community.

I have started making my own points in N Gauge. I saw someone using them for setting the frog point between the 2 stock rails. My club has a small lathe which I used to manufacture a couple of buttons. Using them requires the 2 stock rails to be correctly positioned to start with. If using Templot I would fix the point according to that and then use the buttons to set the stock rails.

 

Neil

[Grovenor]

I have always used the triangular gauges to set the crossing nose position, they do the job perfecly well and will hold the nose much better than those buttons.

See http://www.norgrove.me.uk/points.html

Towards the bottom of the page.

[Stephen Freeman]

Still slightly puzzled. Surely it is easier to work outwards from the Vee? If you put the Vee down first, you just gauge outwards, much easier to get it right rather than trying to work from a stock rail.

[hayfield]

3 hours ago, Stephen Freeman said:

Still slightly puzzled. Surely it is easier to work outwards from the Vee? If you put the Vee down first, you just gauge outwards, much easier to get it right rather than trying to work from a stock rail.

 

Stephen

 

Agree as this is the method used by most societies in their instructions, plus for both EM & P4 1" long metal strips are sold for this purpose. However a much better tool is made by DJ Wheelrights called a wing rail alignment gauge, which can be used for other gauging jobs

 

https://www.westernthunder.co.uk/threads/em-gauge-block-gauge-with-crossing-alingment-aid.9663/

[t-b-g]

I usually lay one stock rail, the straight one, or the straightest one on a curved turnout. Then I lay the V with a gauge to the stock rail. Then I lay the second stock rail with a gauge at the V and another where the blades end. Having tried lots of different approaches building many hundreds of points, it is the way I find easiest and most convenient.