Diesels on the S&D Why so few?

[johnofwessex]

It is accepted that prior to closure the only diesels that worked over the S&D were (three?) specials operated by DMU's and possibly a Class 22 on an inspection saloon.

 

While Bournemouth remained a steam stronghold until 1967, diesel loco's and DMU's operated into Bath Green Park.

 

Was there anything to stop them going onto the S&D?

 

I can understand that there may not have been any drivers with the necessary route and traction knowledge and the WR seemed to have had various motive power crisis's in the early 1960's  but why did so few diesel trains ever go onto the S&D?  Was there some sort of ban on diesel traction?

 

 

[APOLLO]

Hymek & Gronk at Radstock

 

Radstock North (S & D) station, 29/12/67. Shunter D3185 waits for the crossing gates to be opened so that it can use the new spur onto North Somerset Line with coal from Writhlington Colliery, Hymek D7031 waits in the platform to head down to the site of the track lifting on the former S & D route, 29/12/67. 

 

 

Brit15

[geoffers]

Not long before closure, 1965 I think, a Class 35 or Hymek as we knew them, was photographed on an MP.s Inspection train south of Templecombe.  The MP was for North Dorset, maybe Sir Richard Glynn, who was on a jolly, sorry information collecting trip, regarding potential hardships that his constituents would encounter if the line closed. The photograph was in one of Alan Hammond's publications on the S&D but cannot recall which one at present. After closure the demolition trains were diesel hauled with Class 08s, 22s, and 35s north of Blandford, and Class 33s so the south on Bailey Gate milk trains and Blandford goods, and after Jan 1969 Class 3s on demolition trains with the with the odd 73 thrown in. Of course also an excursion to Blandford which had a Class 47 (D1986) and a 74 (E6108), all evidenced by photographs. There is also mysterious Class 47 visitor which has been photographed emerging from the Corfe Mullen cut-off into Broadstone hauling a goods or demo train but no-one, to my knowledge, has ever managed to ascertain which loco and why. There is an unsubstantiated report that the odd Peak banked up trains from Bath GP to the portal of Devonshire Tunnel before closure but no photos have ever emerged to date apart from photos of Peaks at Bath GP station..

[johnofwessex]

Were there any specific prohibitions of diesels in pre closure days?

[geoffers]

With the WR keen on removing steam and the closure of the S&D on the books, as it were, it would have been a costly and wasteful exercise to train drivers etc and establish a diesel infrastructure. The SR was for a long time responsible for loco provision and they was steam at the Bournemouth, and to a fair extent Eastleigh, end until July 1967 so steam locos were the order of the day up from the south. Politics might have been at play at the WR end with the attitude that the modernisation to diesel haulage was to benefit WR services and not be "wasted" on the S&D - who knows? As far as "prohibitions" - well the Peaks and Class 40s were no doubt too heavy, the Class 47s were still being built. Could have used 37s and 33s I suppose but they were in demand elsewhere. 24s, 25s? - maybe not enough grunt? I am surprised that DMUs were not in greater use but possibly the the idea of running down the S&D was in people's minds and there was no will to improve services and the economics. I believe the Unions had put forward this idea but were ignored, and even Ivo Peters.

[Rivercider]

I have a copy of the WR Freight Train Loads Book dated April 1964.

 

The northern part of the S&D is shown under the Bristol Division. Page 30 shows steam-hauled main line freight

load limits for Bath to Templecombe Upper, but page 38 diesel-hauled main line freight trains has no entry for the S&D.  

 

The southern part of the S&D is shown under the Plymouth Division. Page 89 show steam-hauled loads for Bath to Evercreech, and Templecombe to Broadstone, but page 99 for diesel-hauled freight trains has no entry for the S&D.

 

 

Edit - from my later BR career in the Bristol Area Freight Centre we knew that if there was a published load

for a particular loco class over a route then that was authorisation for the loco working.

 

   

cheers. 

 

 

Edited October 19, 2023 by Rivercider
Additional info

[slilley]

In two recent books of mine I have included pictures of diesels at Bath Green Park.

 

Firstly, Brush Type 4 to Class 47 The First 20 Yearshas a picture of D1723 arriving into the station.

 

Secondly, The Peaks Classes 44/45/46 has a picture of D89 soon after it was named at Bath Green Park with what seems to be a local to Bristol.

 

Simon

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, slilley said:

In two recent books of mine I have included pictures of diesels at Bath Green Park.

 

Firstly, Brush Type 4 to Class 47 The First 20 Yearshas a picture of D1723 arriving into the station.

 

Secondly, The Peaks Classes 44/45/46 has a picture of D89 soon after it was named at Bath Green Park with what seems to be a local to Bristol.

 

Simon

But Bath station wasn't S&D so I don't think those count!

[johnofwessex]

14 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

But Bath station wasn't S&D so I don't think those count!

 

But the question is why did they never, even 'in extemis' bead south from Bath, funnily enough the same can be said of 'Crabs'

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, johnofwessex said:

 

But the question is why did they never, even 'in extemis' bead south from Bath, funnily enough the same can be said of 'Crabs'

 

Perhaps because the men who were trained to drive them didn't sign for the road?

[craneman]

On 19/10/2023 at 00:36, geoffers said:

Not long before closure, 1965 I think, a Class 35 or Hymek as we knew them, was photographed on an MP.s Inspection train south of Templecombe.  The MP was for North Dorset, maybe Sir Richard Glynn, who was on a jolly, sorry information collecting trip, regarding potential hardships that his constituents would encounter if the line closed. The photograph was in one of Alan Hammond's publications on the S&D but cannot recall which one at present. After closure the demolition trains were diesel hauled with Class 08s, 22s, and 35s north of Blandford, and Class 33s so the south on Bailey Gate milk trains and Blandford goods, and after Jan 1969 Class 3s on demolition trains with the with the odd 73 thrown in. Of course also an excursion to Blandford which had a Class 47 (D1986) and a 74 (E6108), all evidenced by photographs. There is also mysterious Class 47 visitor which has been photographed emerging from the Corfe Mullen cut-off into Broadstone hauling a goods or demo train but no-one, to my knowledge, has ever managed to ascertain which loco and why. There is an unsubstantiated report that the odd Peak banked up trains from Bath GP to the portal of Devonshire Tunnel before closure but no photos have ever emerged to date apart from photos of Peaks at Bath GP station..

I would be interested to see some of these photos of the Blandford/Broadstone area, any clue as to where/if they have been published?

[geoffers]

Try these publications.

"Legends of the Somerset and Dorset Railway" by Alan Hammond. On page 93 top there is a photo of Hymek D7024 on the MP's inspection train at Stalbridge in 1965.

 

"The Somerset and Dorset - Aftermath of the Beeching Axe" by Tim Deacon. Photos of freight, milk and demolition trains. on p39 there is a photo of Class 47 D1986 and E6108 at Blandford. Also p39-41 has photos of trains at Bailey Gate milk and p84-88 of demo trains.

 

Three books by Jeffrey Grayer. "Sabotaged and Defeated Revisited" with a photo of the mystery Class 47 at Broadstone Junction p93 top.

Also "Sabotaged and Defeated Revisited - A Final Glimpse Vol 1 and 2".

Volume 2 "Evercreech to to Bournemouth has some rare photos between Blandford and Broadstone.

 

Don't forget the S&DRT's "Pines Express" magazines which have covered diesels on the S&D.

Edited October 24, 2023 by geoffers
False start.

[johnofwessex]

The use of diesels post closure is well recorded, pre closure on the other hand there seem to have been very few.

[KeithMacdonald]

19 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

But Bath station wasn't S&D so I don't think those count!

 

Are you thinking  of the other Bath (GWR) Station?

 

Quote

When the Somerset and Dorset Railway completed its Bath extension line in 1874, they connected into the Midland line at Bath Junction a half mile outside the station, and in friendly co-operation with the Midland company they used the station. This created considerable additional through traffic, and as well as heavy volumes of freight, through passenger journeys from the Midlands to the South Coast were created. Through trains had to reverse at Bath, and the most famous of these was the named Pines Express from Manchester (and at times other northern originating points) to Bournemouth West.

 

Bath Green Park and the S&D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_Green_Park_railway_station#The_Somerset_&_Dorset_Railway

 

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Are you thinking  of the other Bath (GWR) Station?

 

No, not at all if I can help it! Bath Queen Square or Green Park as it was renamed in BR days was the Midland Railway station in Bath. The Somerset and Dorset line ended at Bath Junction, the last stretch into the station being over Midland / LMS metals. The station was staffed by Midland / LMS employees. Neither it nor Bournemouth West were joint stations in the way that, for example, Bristol Temple Mead was, operated by a joint committee of the two railways - in that case the Midland and the Great Western. 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Compound2632

[Michael Hodgson]

On 19/10/2023 at 07:16, johnofwessex said:

Were there any specific prohibitions of diesels in pre closure days?

Some lines were worked under "One Engine in Steam" regulations 🤣

 

I don't they ever got round to "One engine in blue smoke"!

[Peter Kazmierczak]

So, to summarise. Known diesel (and electro-diesel) locos classes (100%) which have gone over S&D metals are:

08, 22, 33, 35, 47, 74. These have been largely on track lifting, the odd excursion and somefreight. I think all were after March 1966, when the route closed to through traffic.

Possibles are 45 banking up to Devonshire Tunnel, and 73s on track lifting (any photo evidence for these?)

Didn't 37s work along the "Branch" from Highbridge on M5 roadstone traffic too?

DMUs, those few that worked the route, are well-documented.

As others have mentioned, Green Park itself saw other diesel classes, including 52s, but that wasn't S&D metals.

[Stoke West]

7 minutes ago, Peter Kazmierczak said:

So, to summarise. Known diesel (and electro-diesel) locos classes (100%) which have gone over S&D metals are:

08, 22, 33, 35, 47, 74. These have been largely on track lifting, the odd excursion and somefreight. I think all were after March 1966, when the route closed to through traffic.

Possibles are 45 banking up to Devonshire Tunnel, and 73s on track lifting (any photo evidence for these?)

Didn't 37s work along the "Branch" from Highbridge on M5 roadstone traffic too?

DMUs, those few that worked the route, are well-documented.

As others have mentioned, Green Park itself saw other diesel classes, including 52s, but that wasn't S&D metals.

D95XX class 14 worked into Midland Bridge Road after March 66 , so any diesel available would have worked to the Coop coal siding which closed in 30th November 67 the first post march 66 S&D closure

[Stoke West]

24 minutes ago, Peter Kazmierczak said:

So, to summarise. Known diesel (and electro-diesel) locos classes (100%) which have gone over S&D metals are:

08, 22, 33, 35, 47, 74. These have been largely on track lifting, the odd excursion and somefreight. I think all were after March 1966, when the route closed to through traffic.

Possibles are 45 banking up to Devonshire Tunnel, and 73s on track lifting (any photo evidence for these?)

Didn't 37s work along the "Branch" from Highbridge on M5 roadstone traffic too?

DMUs, those few that worked the route, are well-documented.

As others have mentioned, Green Park itself saw other diesel classes, including 52s, but that wasn't S&D metals.

At Highbridge a completely new junction with new alignment and new road bridge was constructed to allow direct running onto the S&D off the main line into use on 04/04/71 controlled by Highbridge Crossing Box . This abolished the flat crossing and flattening all of the S&D station (except one platform) , works and loco shed site but brought in pairs of 37's on the PFA trains from Aberthaw 

[RailWest]

53 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Some lines were worked under "One Engine in Steam" regulations 🤣

 

 

...but none on the S&DJR :-)